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3Leaf Audio Club - Episode 2
- Thread starter fivestringgecko
- Start date
Guessing you're referring to the DG/Pike/Vulcan kerfuffle. I'm not one of Spencer's biggest fans, but that was just wrong on a number of levels.
I wasn't around then either, but it's all still available to read. Labeledbass is right: TalkBass was extremely uncharitable to Spencer and it's our loss since he's no longer active here.
That whole deal was largely rooted in dumb fan-boy mentality and people wanting to 'sic em'. I respect the fact that Spencer said 'fvck it' and walked away.
Also, let's take a step back and remember something. It's just effects pedals...
Also, let's take a step back and remember something. It's just effects pedals...
By the way, since this thread is meant to be a "Club", Chromatron #123 signing in !
Amazing pedal. I can't wait to add an Octabvre and a Doom2 in the loop.
Price was sharp. $710 with shipping + $145 of import duties. The sides are not in a perfect condition either but the lettering is in good shape. Not a great deal, but I am super happy with the pedal after all.
Amazing pedal. I can't wait to add an Octabvre and a Doom2 in the loop.
Price was sharp. $710 with shipping + $145 of import duties. The sides are not in a perfect condition either but the lettering is in good shape. Not a great deal, but I am super happy with the pedal after all.
Spencer did catch a lot of heat for the DG/Pike fiasco. Some of it was indeed well deserved. Some of it wasn't. Most of it is still available yes but I can tell you there's quite a bit that was deleted at the time..
It's a shame he dipped instead of dealing with the situation but as I understand it, he felt that was necessary for his own sake. Spencer was active here for a long time before that whole deal and his presence was appreciated by those who dealt with him. By the time the Pike thing happened though, the few nuggets of info we could get from him was mostly stuff like "tastefully choosen EQ points"... those that know will remember...
Spencer makes great pedals but at this point I don't think it's fair to compare him to folks like Broughton who continually keep on working on his craft and evolve his products. Spencer has basically been doing nothing 3leaf in years except drop a batch here and there when he deems it. Which is obviously fine as he can definitely do whatever he wants but he left a lot of dealers and customers hanging in the process. I'd hope he really gets back to pedals but it's unlikely his output will ever match what other builders do these days or even what he used to do before and used prices will keep on rising. I'd love to try a Chromatron, but I'm not especially enthused at the idea of paying 500$ msrp for one because the enclosure is milled in the US...
It's a shame he dipped instead of dealing with the situation but as I understand it, he felt that was necessary for his own sake. Spencer was active here for a long time before that whole deal and his presence was appreciated by those who dealt with him. By the time the Pike thing happened though, the few nuggets of info we could get from him was mostly stuff like "tastefully choosen EQ points"... those that know will remember...
Spencer makes great pedals but at this point I don't think it's fair to compare him to folks like Broughton who continually keep on working on his craft and evolve his products. Spencer has basically been doing nothing 3leaf in years except drop a batch here and there when he deems it. Which is obviously fine as he can definitely do whatever he wants but he left a lot of dealers and customers hanging in the process. I'd hope he really gets back to pedals but it's unlikely his output will ever match what other builders do these days or even what he used to do before and used prices will keep on rising. I'd love to try a Chromatron, but I'm not especially enthused at the idea of paying 500$ msrp for one because the enclosure is milled in the US...
I highly agree with this - I've propped up the Chromatron for so long, honestly hoping others could experience the same thing I have, but this really puts a cap on it for a lot of folks
I don't think anyone was really comparing Spencer to Broughton, they were comparing the demand/popularity of the two companies, not the merits of the founders or the quality of the product
Spencer makes great pedals, too infrequently for my taste. But that's just how it is. No sense getting angry over pedals.
I do wonder if the pedals would be any easier or cheaper to put out if he used standard enclosures. The manufacturing on the milled Chromatron enclosure is awesome, but it's not exactly central to the experience. Same goes with the normal bent (stamped?) steel enclosures. I would love an Octabvre Mk. 3 just as much if it were in a 125B. I know that with high-end effects, it's all the details that matter, but... yeah, I'm fairly certain the cost of those enclosures does not help.
With me debating the merits of stamped or milled, you'd think I was talking about Kalashnikovs.
Fairfield has the right idea imho, raw aluminum enclosures, stamped print, simple, no frills, a modest aesthetic, all the magic is in the circuitry anyway
I'm sure it's robust, but I don't like the raw metal aesthetic, if for any reason that it makes all the pedals look too similar. There are a few pedals in his lineup where, if you don't know them intimately and if you squint your eyes, pretty much look the same. If by chance you have more than one of them on your board, I wouldn't want to risk accidentally stomping on the wrong pedal when they all do such radically different things.
I like Broughton's aesthetic the most. Simple finishes, mostly solid colors with not much overlap, clean labels with consistent visual style.
I suspect the enclosures affect supply chain availability more than anything. After all, the last time new Chromatrons were for sale they were $279. Now they are $499. Have components increased in price? Yes. But that much? No. The enclosures are not a primary driver of the cost of these pedals.
I am a huge fan of the 3 Leaf enclosures because they show Spencer's commitment to offering the best product possible. Nearly everyone else uses standard enclosures from Hammond, etc. And the result is unnecessarily large pedals. If every pedal builder took the time to house their circuits in enclosures that are not mostly negative space, then I could fit more pedals on my board. Board real estate is worth a lot to me.
I agree on both the problems of overly similar aesthetics and Broughtons use of simple, mostly solid colors with clean labels. I ultimately prefer more exciting aesthetics like Flattley or JAM Pedals, or some of the newer Chase Bliss like Habit, but the Broughton approach is cost effective and visually clear.
That may have been true at some point, but the 125B Hammond enclosure equipped with top jacks is a powerful thing. I would go as far as to say that I don't see a reason for a pedal to be smaller than that. When you do get smaller than that, the pedals become so small that if you make efficient use of their size by putting them as close as they can be to one another, you run into issues with them being too close together. This is much more true of the 1590A than of 3Leaf's enclosures, but even the 2mm difference in width between the 3Leaf Mini enclosure and a 125B is somewhat noticeable if you've got several pedals right up against one another. You kind of have to be an accomplished tap-dancer at that point. A row of top jack 125Bs, however, wastes almost no space and still maintains a usable spacing for most peoples' feet.
The other side of this, to me, feels like a question of values. To me, a custom-manufactured enclosure just doesn't feel like something a pedal needs. It doesn't impact the sound. Unless there's some very specific reason a pedal needs to be in a special enclosure, it just seems like fluff to me. Being in an appropriately-sized enclosure is important, but there are many sizes available to builders now. I would take a savings on price from using a standard die-cast enclosure than the minor space savings/aesthetic quality of a custom-made one any day.
I guess there's a difference in artisanship between two extremes: do we a) spare no expense and make the best product, or do we b) focus/optimize on only the parameters that matter to the sound and make the most effective product?
More and more lately, I find myself valuing makers who take the latter approach. A very good example of this is Barefaced Audio cabinets... they went out of their way to hammer out all of what a speaker cabinet needs to sound good, and then built everything else around that. It's not flashy, and the manufacturing is nowhere near as pornographic as some other cabinets I've seen, but what it lacks in those qualities it makes up for in being the best sounding cabinet that weighs less than some solid state heads and fits in the front seat of my car. They (and other makers) achieve these seemingly contradictory qualities by understanding what a product does and does not need in order to be most effective.
I encountered similarly divergent product takes when I was deep into the modular synth world. Make Noise has a somewhat esoteric aesthetic, but their modules are in standard sizes and do standard things. Then there are folks like Folktek, who, last I checked, were basically creating art pieces that could be used in synthesis.
Based on what I can tell, the look, font, and branding were very important to Spencer. From what I remember in the various threads here on TB when he was active, the overall pedal design wasn't just what was on the inside. He kind of had an uncompromising vision for his pedals, which is commendable but admittedly frustrating from a consumer standpoint. But I think this unwavering stance makes him unique and he certainly stands out. Whatever the case, it seems to be working for him. This is just my "view from the outside" opinion.
Hmm. Maybe.
Honestly, I don’t mind if the MSRP is 10% or 20% more higher because of custom enclosures.
I can’t blame a maker for taking the time and choosing the hard path for the sake of quality.
I understand we, consumers / users, may want to discuss the choices companies make for the products they design for us.
But in the case of a one man operated business, I don’t feel legitimate to tell him what to do. That’s his products, his vision, his time.
Similarly, he doesn’t owe us anything. We can’t just request him to produce more.
if producing pedals he is proud of means paying more and have much less pedal produced… We have to respect this decision.
Of course they would be cheaper. Milling a solid block of steel into those enclosures most probably costs north of 100$ these days, with raw materials and operating time of the milling machine. And that's before plating/painting. If Spencer was cranking out thousands of these he could save on economies of scale orders but that's definitely not the case. No doubt they do look cool though.
I'm sure he could move all of his designs into more readily available (and cheaper) Hammond enclosures but he chooses not to because of his business model. Instead, he puts the cost of custom enclosures onto the buyer for better or for worse. In this case I say worse because of the absurd price hike of nearly 79% for the Chromatron. I think most buyers could care less about the enclosure as long as Spencer put more products on the market. Unfortunately, I don't see him changing anything in order to cater to his buyers so we'll always be playing the waiting game.
