# 410 makes more bass than 115?...118?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by sweetcharlie454, May 3, 2010.

1. ### sweetcharlie454

Apr 16, 2010
I went to a music store to trade my peavey 810 for a Hartke 410 and 115.... I wanted to add the 15" thinking it would add more bottom to my sound, but the guy explained to me that..." 410's move more air than 115's and 118's, is this just a myth or proven true?

2. ### Burlington

Jun 7, 2009
University Place, WA
From what I've heard, it is true.

3. ### somegeezer

Oct 1, 2009
England
410 would be about equal to a single 20 inch... so it's proven fact

4. ### 5StringBlues

Feb 26, 2009
Here we are...
It's going to depend on the specific cab,but yeah,a 410 cab has 40 inches of speaker surface,a 115 has 15 inches of speaker surface,etc.

More speaker surface = more air mass moved.

Edit: Yeah,yeah,the math's all wrong,but the idea is more speaker surface = more air pushed = more volume.

Not necessarily lower tone tho................

5. ### pasta4lnch

I think there is some good info on Phil Jones site about combined surface area and expelling lots of myths about size=bass . . .

6. ### i_got_a_mohawk

Firstly, you need to take into account that there are a huge amount of variables when talking about speakers. Diameter is only one of them.

But 4x10 speakers does have a higher surface area than 115

10 inch speaker, r=5.
15 inch speaker, r=7.5
18 inch speaker, r=9

Using A (area) = pi.r^2

A single 10 has an area of ~78.5 inch^2,
A single 15 has an area of ~176.7 inch^2,
A single 18 has an area of ~254.5 inch^2,

so a 4x10 has a speaker area of ~314 inch^2.

But, as said, there are so many other variables to take into account. Also, when you mix different speakers like that you will be introducing interference, which can be destructive in some areas, constructive in the other. Generally I'm not a huge fan of mixing cabs like that.

Biamping is another option to consider, where you send the frequencies below a certain point to one cab and frequencies above that point to another.

7. ### i_got_a_mohawk

It really doesn't

As some geezer pointed out, it's a similar size to a single 20 inch driver:

10 inch driver giving ~78.5 inch^2, 4x 10 inch drivers giving ~314 inch^2

20 inch driver gives an area of ~314 inch^2

8. ### SanDiegoHarryBannedSupporting Member

Aug 11, 2008
San Diego, CA
Is this 2000th or 3000th time this thread has run?

9. ### sweetcharlie454

Apr 16, 2010
I would be biamping if that was the case but i'm almost positive i'mgonna get the 410's

This just prove's the guys that hate 10's wrong, the fact is, 10's are more versatile than any other.

10. ### sweetcharlie454

Apr 16, 2010
.......sorry man, i'm new.

.

11. ### standupright

Jul 7, 2006
Phoenix, AZ
Brownchicken Browncow

calculate the area of the circle to get the total speaker surface area.

1 10 inch speaker has an area of 78.54 (rounded up)
1 15 inch speaker has an area of 176.71

EDIT: and it looks like i'm late to the correction party. at least it looks like i got it right this time

12. ### PassinwindI know nothing.Commercial User

Dec 3, 2003
Columbia River Gorge, WA.
Owner/Designer &Toaster Tech Passinwind Electronics
These are all way off. Those dimensions are the bolt centers for mounting, not the cone diameter. Once you get that sorted you need to calculate displacement rather than just surface area. Then you need to factor in power compression and a few other things before you're even close to getting the whole picture.

13. ### SanDiegoHarryBannedSupporting Member

Aug 11, 2008
San Diego, CA
I figured... and the truth is, searching for that exact data would be tricky... It's just funny how often we see the same thread over... and over... and over...

Which bass is best for metal?
Ash or Alder?
Rosewood or Maple?
Best pickup for Metal?
Best amp for Metal?

etc etc etc

But yes - 4x10 puts out more low freqs than a 2x15. But that's not the question you should be asking: Which *sounds* better to your ears. THAT'S the question. Some folks really like the sound of 15". I prefer 10"s, but that's *me*.

14. ### Bmorefoozler

Oct 9, 2009
Baltimore, MD
The math is easier then this on paper... PI cancels out... it doesn't matter.

4x10 is 4x5^2 or 100pi
1x15= 7.5^2 or roughly 56ish pi... close enough for the purpose is that 2 10" drivers with similar Xmax or cone travel will have roughly the same output to a single 15" with same xmax.
Put it another way, a 15" would have to have roughly twice the cone travel or Xmax to have the same Low end output of a 4x10" but would likely take much more power to get there. Note that PA subs commonly take several hundred watts for a single 15" to put out much more low end then most Bass 4x10's.

15. ### i_got_a_mohawk

As I said, there are a huge number of variables to consider, that was just to give a rough idea of the differences involved. Considering that if you take ACTUAL area, which isn't a great deal different, it is going to vary somewhat from speaker to speaker, as is the depth, as is sensitivity of the speaker, as is the x-max of the speaker etc etc etc.

So, it just gives a general feel for the differences involved.

16. ### PassinwindI know nothing.Commercial User

Dec 3, 2003
Columbia River Gorge, WA.
Owner/Designer &Toaster Tech Passinwind Electronics
Understood, but it's a losing proposition any way you slice it.

17. ### Jim CarrDr. JimGold Supporting Member

Jan 21, 2006
Denton, TX or Kailua, HI
fEARful Kool-Aid dispensing liberal academic card-carrying union member Musicians Local 72-147
Driver size (or total area) does not determine low frequency performance. It is way more complex than that. A search and a bit of reading is recommended. Even the wiki article on woofer is not bad, IMHO.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woofer

18. ### JimmyMSupporting Member

Apr 11, 2005
Apopka, FL
Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
not always. depends on the way the cab is built. a sealed 410 won't go as low as a ported 115, for example. however, 410's almost always go twice as loud as a 115. plus you take possible phasing issues into consideration and maybe matching cabs are the way to go.

but a couple 115's can sound awfully sweet so don't rule them out. i have an 810 rig and a 115 x 2 rig and i love them both and use them about equally. plus speakers all have their own character and tones, even if they're the same size. no way you can say a b&c neo 10" sounds like an eminence b810, that's for sure.

19. ### i_got_a_mohawk

Well, it is the only constant in the matter, which is why I used it.

It is also why I mentioned at the start of my post that the diameter was only one of the many variables involved and the various area's are just to illustrate the point that 410s will have a larger area than a 115.

20. ### Bass_Pounder

Jan 19, 2002
Palm Coast, Florida
The only "fact" is that you cannot make a blanket statement like that.