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410s and cab evolution

#23
"Pee bass" made me laugh.

The only time a 410 isn't cool is when there's two 410's.

The average bass player is not awash in cash and is getting what he can get when he can get it. Gear has to last while he's saving up or increasing the trade schwag to get the next thing he wants. Even if all 410 cab production ceased tomorrow-nobody's gonna do that on a Sunday night after all; there's football on-there'd still be a lot of 'em in use for a very, very long time. Certainly more than long enough for them to become popular all over again.
 
#24
Just casually going back through my memory, I'd say that ported 4x10s on the market always outnumbered sealed ones. Again, that's just unsystematically looking back. Maybe there was a time when that wasn't true.

All things equal, a 4x10 is usually a pretty functional cab for the working bassist. It pushes enough air in a decent sized room with no PA support, but it's portable enough to fit in most sedans. That's probably why they are still so ubiquitous.
 
#26
JGR said:
IME you need some decent displacement for a sealed cab to be viable and that's going to be tough in a 410 config (at least with the currently available drivers)
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There are some 10" drivers with enough air displacement that when put in a sealed 410 will put out as much lowend as an 810. Take e.g. the Jensen/Sica driver mentioned in another thread, It's xmax is twice as high as your typical classic 810 driver. Although the TSP's aren't optimal for a sealed cab they are useable, just crank the lows on the amp a bit and you're there.
 
#27
Arjank said:
There are some 10" drivers with enough air displacement that when put in a sealed 410 will put out as much lowend as an 810. Take e.g. the Jensen/Sica driver mentioned in another thread, It's xmax is twice as high as your typical classic 810 driver. Although the TSP's aren't optimal for a sealed cab they are useable, just crank the lows on the amp a bit and you're there.
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IMO if you have to EQ a cab to make it sound right right off the bat, the design is a fail. I want my EQ to be available to compensate for different environments and instruments or to sculpt a variety of tones, and you lose that when you are wasting it trying to fix/fight some other part of your signal chain. Adding to that, EQing isn't going to necessarily sound like properly selected speakers, along the same lines that EQing a modern ported cab to sound like a sealed 810 is mediocre at best.
 
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#28
IMO, the typical 410 was/is an effort to fit the most round drivers in a square box for the loudest, highest power handling result in a smaller cab.

They'll generally hang with a loud drummer/carry a smaller venue from stage, in half the size of an 810 or big 215.

Perhaps an early attempt at a "compact" (for the time) loud rig.
 
#31
Arjank said:
Then at least all the commercials cabinets I've tried fall into this category and thus are failed.....
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Absolutely! Which is why you, me, and several other good folks here design and build our own with much success!
 
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#32
Got to disagree, guys. Needing EQ isn't always a function of the cab. Many times it's a function of the amp or the bass. You guys do build your own with much success, yes, but that doesn't mean other designs are failures. And honestly, as long as you're getting a sound you like, does it really make a difference if you moved a knob or two to get it? I say no.
 
#33
410 cabinets were designed and built because Satan infected cabinet designers and led them to make a smaller cabinet that is actually more of a PITA to move than a really big one. They sound just fine, work just fine, and wreck your back just fine. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it. Now, if some angelic influence came along and put an extendable hand truck handle and wheels on one of those so you could move it without bending over or recruiting a reluctant singer to help you move it, then I might change my opinion. But, if you have a handle and wheels already, why not just go for the full sized cabinet? Those already have handles and wheels, and the amp has a volume knob so they are always appropriate. So, there you have it. Crankiness distilled into a rant about 410 cabinets.
 
#34
JimmyM said:
Got to disagree, guys. Needing EQ isn't always a function of the cab. Many times it's a function of the amp or the bass. You guys do build your own with much success, yes, but that doesn't mean other designs are failures. And honestly, as long as you're getting a sound you like, does it really make a difference if you moved a knob or two to get it? I say no.
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Very true that every part of the signal chain is key. But if a cab's response is lacking or obnoxious to where you have to dial in/out something right off the bat (I'm talking more extreme, not a tiny bump here or there) to make it sound right, I'd call that a fail.
 
#37
Haji said:
Absolutely. Look at somebody like Mike Gordon with Phish. You can't get his very distinctive sound without cranking some knobs around. To me he's taking a system that I imagine sounds great set flat and making it sound like him....which to me is nasty, but not to him or his fans.
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He is using the amp's EQ to dial in a signature sound, not to compensate for something amiss in the speaker cab.

Now this is TB, so I'm sure we will muddle this very simple point, but I think you guys know what I'm talking about. ;)
 
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#38
I just don't care for them. I could maybe see having two because you liked/needed that 810 magic but wanted some modularity. But for me I just think they're too big, too heavy and too low to the ground. If I'm going to have four drivers I'm going to split them up into two smaller cabs and get some more elevation out of them as well.
 
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#39
scottfeldstein said:
.....If I'm going to have four drivers I'm going to split them up into two smaller cabs and get some more elevation out of them as well.
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That's the conundrum. I can roll my 410....no need to carry it, you need to carry your two seperate cabs. If you want to roll 2 cabs, you need a cart or a dolly. Also, most super cabs or other stack combos a have similar height profile as a 410. The only thing that's taller than a 410 is 2ea vertical 210's, 610, or an 810. Sure, perhaps the 410 was/is inferior in design. But it's one of those things that just work.
 
#40
You typically have to bend over to roll a 410. Two 210 cabinets fit on a hand truck or dolly just like a 410, except you don't have to lift it all at once. From my back's point of view, a 410 cabinet is the ultimate in bad packaging.

Loading a 'fridge or 'fridge sized cabinet into a van is a matter of leverage and leg strength. No back involved. Same with getting it up and down the stairs. You don't have that option with a 410, even if it has wheels. Two 210 cabinets fit in the back seat of a car far better than a 410, and lifting them is far easier. I can't think of any advantage to a 410 at all. Lots of people like them, but my back tells me otherwise. Plus, my ears like bigger cabinets even at low volumes.

It's a big world, and if everyone was like me, we would all be bored to tears.
 

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