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410UL Series I vs. II A/B comparison

#22
Vic said:
By this you mean the S2 sounds louder to you than the S1? If so, with my UL310's, I've had opposite results... mainly due to that mid peak on the S1's.
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Yeah, S2 1x12 is louder. I run the two cabs in together off of a bridged Crown XTi amp. The S2 is louder when I run them together.

BTW, it's not a negative, just an observation. The S1 is rated higher (400 watts vs. the S1 300 watts), so maybe that has something to do with it? I'm not hip to the technical stuff.
 
#25
Hou said:
Thanks Ken

Cool that you are doing what we others wouldn't be able to!

You think that S2 would better with Walter Woods amp?

-Christian
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From my experience with the SD800, which had some of the same 'issues' with the Series I 410UL as I found with the Walter, I think the new 410UL will be an improvement. My Walter lives in another town so I will not be able to test it out, but Gary (MacGroove) likes his Series II better with the Walter.

As Fuzzbass points out, it is again all about the mix and match, tone goals, and technique. I hear very little difference between the S1 and S2 with the LMII. With the SD800, the S2 sounds quite a bit better to me... less upper mid nasally, which I can't seem to dial out with that head and the S1. With the TF, I prefer the S1... more punchy and articulate. Again, all pretty subtle, but it's there.

K
 
#28
xgabriele said:
Hey Ken, you get to try a UL502 yet? ;)
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I would think he would prefer a UL902C ....:hiding:

Ken, thanks for that nice review.
I think I'm going to stay quite content with my S-I's and heads I'm using. Since my 310UL is more 'balanced' than my 410UL I've sorta kinda got the S1/S2 thing going on when used together.

My LMII sounds really great with both cabs and I like the TF and DB750 too.

While using my Sadowsky PJ4 with flats, the 310UL and DB750 or LMII are the ticket.

For my Sadowsky JJ4 with nickel rounds, the 410UL and either the TF or LMII are the way to go.

Nice choices for sure.
 
#32
KJung said:
No, actually relatively subtle, but you can hear it. The S2 still does not have the low mid oomph of your SA410, and still has a much bigger, wider low end. However, the upper mids that some don't care for have been somewhat attenuated on the 410S2. So, I'm with Gary on his earlier comments.... if you liked the S1, you will like the S2... in some cases and with some heads, maybe better. If you thought the S1 had a little too much upper mid presence, but in general liked the cab, the S2 might be different enough that it would work for you. If the S1 was really not your thing, IMO, the S2 is more similar than different... it's still quite articulate, big, and to my ear, actually more 'modern' sounding than the S1, which was capable of quite a bit of mid growl and aggression to my ear.

My guess is, from our previous discussions, you would like the S2 better than the S1 that you had, but not as much as your SA410!
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Excellent... thanks, Ken. I still owe you a comparison of the SA410/HS410/HS210 cabs... I'll post it as soon as it happens!
 
#33
Vic said:
+1

No offense to Big String, whom I like very much, but a $2400 stereo amp that can't go below 4 ohms per side just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Too limiting for cab configs for all that power... especially since you could get a lightweight stereo power amp and a Quest II preamp for a LOT less money... maybe closer to like 1/2. IMHO, Epifani kinda' dropped the ball on that one.
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I know I'm always pushing back on this... but prior to meeting a few of you guys on TB, I've never known any bass player (of the hundreds I know) that has ever run an amp under 4ohms. If they want to use two cabs, they get 8ohm versions. A single large cab... yep, 4ohms work great. For the 902C, four smaller 8 ohm or two larger 4 ohm is perfect.

I'm not saying that it isn't reasonable to want to do that, but there are very, very, very few cab configurations that you couldn't run with a 4ohm minimum amp. Actually, two Epi310UL's is the only config that comes to mind. Virtually every other cab I know of comes in either 8 ohm (for two) or 4ohm (for single) use.

I have read a number of posts from people who happen to own a 4ohm cab and an 8 ohm cab, and are trying to 'make it work' by getting a 2ohm minimum head, but they would not be in the market for a high end amp, or they would just swap one of the cabs out for one of the 'appropriate' impedance IMO (i.e., it seems to be more of a 'cash availability' driver than a technical need).

Edit: That being said, if you really want to use two 310UL's with a monoblock head, your are very limited. I would guess, though, that this is an unusual enough situation to not provide manufacturers with much profit incentive.
 
#34
Vic said:
+1

No offense to Big String, whom I like very much, but a $2400 stereo amp that can't go below 4 ohms per side just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Too limiting for cab configs for all that power... especially since you could get a lightweight stereo power amp and a Quest II preamp for a LOT less money... maybe closer to like 1/2. IMHO, Epifani kinda' dropped the ball on that one.
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I'm currently digging my setup with the UL502 and Crest CA-9. For rehearsals, I just bring the light weight little UL502 along, but for gigs, I'll use the pre-out of the UL502 into the Crest CA-9 and it makes for a fantastic chest punching rig. I also like the idea of having two amps with me at a gig. If the UL502 goes down, I have the CA-9 with a direct box to play through. If the CA-9 goes down, well, the UL502 has plenty of power on its own to use on the gig.

However, I'm not sure how long I'll be able to tolerate the weight of the CA-9. Sure, it sounds fantastic, but man this thing is heavy. I have it racked in an anvil style 2 space rack, and it weighs 10lbs more than my UL410!!! Maybe a Stewart 2.1 is on the horizon for me...
 
#37
X
For sure... I absolutely loved my CA9 but evenutally sold it because of it's weight and rediculous size. Hung out the back of a full size SKB rack and could never get my rig next to the back wall with the banna sticking out... too much hassle for a anal guy like me... haha. I ended up setting on the side of the cab standing up and it was ok, but the anal-ness struck again. Hey.... it's my only fault other than that I'm perfect...just ask me.
 
#38
Fuzzbass said:
I still owe you a comparison of the SA410/HS410/HS210 cabs... I'll post it as soon as it happens!
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Man, I had an opportunity to hear the HS410 and HS210 at Bass Emporium last Friday. :eek: :bassist: :help: :D

And thanks for the great review, Ken! Now, I am dying to hear the HS410 and UL410 Series 2 side by side! :cool:
 
#39
tombowlus said:
Man, I had an opportunity to hear the HS410 and HS210 at Bass Emporium last Friday. :eek: :bassist: :help: :D

And thanks for the great review, Ken! Now, I am dying to hear the HS410 and UL410 Series 2 side by side! :cool:
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I'm looking forward to hearing the HS410 also... I bet it sounds great. Assuming you get one :D , I could eventually swing by on my way down 75 to one of my gigs in the 'deep South' and bring the Series II!
 
#40
KJung said:
That being said, if you really want to use two 310UL's with a monoblock head, your are very limited. I would guess, though, that this is an unusual enough situation to not provide manufacturers with much profit incentive.
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Actually, there are a number of heads that do well with a 2 ohm load. Plus, just about any quality 'PA power amp' will be able to drive two 4 ohm (or 5.3 ohm) cabs - and usually on just one channel - so that opens up plenty of options as well.

We are fortunate to have a lot of different, great gear available, and by and large, it is possible for people to find great gear combos in the 8, 4, 2, or whatever ohm load varieties. :)
 

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