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5 string bass, is extended scale a must?

#21
+1 to folks noting that 34" basses can have great B strings.

OP, regarding the tension of the B, visit the Circle K Strings website. They've offered balanced tension sets for quite a while; these are my strings of choice for my Sadowsky Metro and Carvin SB5000 (both 34" scale).

Yeah, most packaged sets I've tried had floppy B strings. But there's your fix for the problem.
 
#22
Ewo said:
+1 to folks noting that 34" basses can have great B strings.

OP, regarding the tension of the B, visit the Circle K Strings website. They've offered balanced tension sets for quite a while; these are my strings of choice for my Sadowsky Metro and Carvin SB5000 (both 34" scale).

Yeah, most packaged sets I've tried had floppy B strings. But there's your fix for the problem.
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They can definitely have solid 34" B strings. A 35" is much more consistent, though. You really have to hunt around for a 34" that works. Ibanez generally has terrible 34" B strings. Fender's are hit & miss. G&L is tight. Music Man's tight.
 
#23
Depends on the budget. Most 34" scale basses with a great low B have a nicely reinforced neck. Some of the more inexpensive 5ers are simply a 4 string with a wider neck and extra string. In that case, 35" scale can help add enough tension to avoid the floppy sound.

When I started on bass, I was fairly anti 34" scale because all of the local 5-6 string budget basses I played or heard had a very floppy and undefined low B. The first good 5er I played was a 35" scale Peavey Cirrus, so I made that connection. I still like 35" scale basses, but I now have a 34" scale Cliff Bordwell with an amazing B as well as a 32" scale Cliff Bordwell 7 string with a very amazing low B.
 
#24
I have the following:

Birdsong HY5 (walnut) fretless 5
Alembic Epic (walnut) fretless 5
Roscoe SKB Custom 3005 (ash/myrtle burl) fretless 5
Warwick Corvette Std (bubinga) fretless 5
G&L L-2500 (natural ash/ebony) fretless 5

They range from 35" (Roscoe) to 31.5" (Birdsong). The Birdsong has a double through body B string and is just as tight an robust as any of them. The two aforementioned are my favorites.
 
#25
With lower price 5string basses Id say get 35 scale. Cause they will generally have better sounding low B. With expensive basses theres enough care taken for building and materials etc that you can get excellent sounding low B with 34 scale. But that takes more care then cheaper basses generally get.
 
#26
Fuzzbass said:
Like you, I've owned 34" and 35". I have no difficulty playing 35", but the overall timbre sounds different so I prefer 34".
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I have owned and played a lot of 5ers in both 34 and 35. Even in the 35" basses that had a tighter B string, I preferred the 34"s overall - one string does not a bass playing experience make :ninja:. With that said, there are tons of nice 34" B strings out there. I had a SR5 for a long while that sounded great.

Also this is IMO, YMMV, etc.
 
#29
I've never had any issues with 34" scale and I tune well below b. even as low as f# on some of my basses. Just get a quality bass and some good strings. Will a $700 35" ibanez Btb have a better low b than a cheaper 34" scale bass? probably. But that same 35" scale bass won't measure up to the low b you can Get on a stingray or a Warwick or other quality instruments at all. Best low b of all the basses I've owned is definetly my warwick thumb neck through. It's not even close. And it's a 34" scale.

IMO my opinion it's just a sales gimmick that some people fall for. They read about 35" scale having a better low b so much by the time they actually buy one its already subconsciously implanted as law in thier brain. Just like all the other sales gimmicks on basses. Some of them actually have a complete opposite effect than advertised. For example I can't tell you how many times I've read that string through body basses help sustain. I do think they can make the body of the bass resonate a little more but they dont add sustain at all. The fact of the matter is when strings are wound up on the tuners they twist. On string through body basses that string twisting is much worse because the angle that the string goes to turn down and go through the body doesn't allow the string to untwist itself at all. Anyone who's owned a Warwick or a bass or the hipshot bridges I have on my other basses will know what im talking about as its pretty obvious. The nice thing about those bridges is when your restringing you can wind the sting up on the tuner then before it gets to tight you can pull it out of the bridge and untwist it before tightening the tuner the rest of the way. It makes a huge difference with the B and E strings because the heavier gauge the string the more the more it twists.

Some other gimmicks are cool. For example I like the locking jack on my Conklin. Mainly because I've never had an issue with it. Every other jack on every other bass I've owned for a decent amount of time has had to be replaced at some point.

Back to the original subject though. Scale does have a small effect on tone. You can get a more piano like tone with a longer scale. As for tention ill first say that there is such thing as to much tension. When strings have excessive tention you loose sustain and the string vibrates differently over the pickup which changes the tone. For the a,d,and g strings a longer scale actually makes them sound noticeably thinner. Which is really why people make fan fretted basses.

I'm really open to new ideas for basses when they come along but some of them I've "been there, done that" and the cons outweighed the benefits.
 
#30
I think it has more to do with the string itself than the bass. I believed for a long time that bigger was better for the B, until I got a set of Fender 9050 flats. They use a taper 128, which, on paper, should sound thin and loose, but it is a near perfect balance with the rest of the set. I used to use rounds with a taper wound B and, while the string tended to want to vibrate forever, it felt balanced and still had tone. I think that too big risks a loss of overtones, especially as the string ages.

String tension has to take into account the entire string length, not just the vibrating part. I had a bass that had a trapeze tail piece and it needed extra long scale strings and the string tension over all was pretty high. The stop was something like 3 inches behind the bridge. So, when you consider that a standard Fender type bridge has 1 inch between the saddles and the tail of the bridge, that is 2 inches more of effective string length. I think it's a matter of matching the right strings with the bass, not of vibrating string length.
 
#32
hahallur said:
Ok so I've been trying out a bunch of 5 string basses. It's a bass I'm going to be using for recording and live play.

I've tried 34" and 35", both have pros and cons. The 35" is tighter while the 34" is a bit looser and easier to play. My friend thinks getting a 34" 5 string is blasphemy.

I'm just wondering if I end up getting a 34" bass if the low B is going to have problems.
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First, I don't use my 5-strings for their extended range as much as I do for playing further up the neck. Country-western music has a lot of notes below low E, but I don't think many other genres use the B string that much. Maybe smooth jazz, I don't know.

Second, I don't notice any difference in playability or sound between my 34-inch 5-strings and the 35-inch ones. The 34s include Sadowsky, Fender, Drozd, LeCompte and Fodera. My 35s include Lakland, Yamaha, and Fodera. Then the 34.5-inch F Bass. I don't think it makes a speck of difference. The difference lies in the strings.
 
#33
There are two things to consider; feel and sound.

Feel: Three factors determine a given pitch; Tension, Length, and Thickness. By increasing either of the later, the former will also increase. So, while a 35" will give more tension, so will a 34" with a larger gauge B string. I personally prefer 34" approach as you can then have consistent tension across all strings (the 35" approach increases tension on a the strings, not just the B).

Sound: I have played 35" scale necks with tight feeling B strings that still sounded floppy. Ive also played some 34" ones that sounded tight and punchy on the B string. Only conclusion that I can make from that is there is more then just the 'tension' that effects the sound. I'm sure everything from wood to pickups will play some role in the sound. Considering that 35" scale seems to be the route of many lower end instruments, I'm guessing that the scale itself has some, but little, impact on the sound.

Hope that helps....
 
#35
I think it depends on the bass.. There are many many 34" scale 5'ers that are fantastic as well as many many 35" that are just as good. I prefer 35" myself, but I have a 34" or 2 sitting around for me to play as well.
 
#40
cfsporn said:
I like extended scales for their additional harmonics on all strings. That said, most people only use the first 5 frets on a B string for which most 34" basses will do just fine.
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When playing walking lines in E, I play up the neck on my B. Makes the lines more consistent, and I can play after and more comfortably.

Where I find the 35" scale really comes in handy is when I need the first 5 frets on the B. I've found MOST, not all, 34" scale basses to be muddy/floppy on the B.
 

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