5 string buckeye burl/mahogany neck through

[lbridenstine]

I checked the maple a few days ago and it was still slightly bowed, not as much as before and I could very easily push it flat with one finger. I have it clamped/stickered now.

Does anybody have experience with this that could tell me how long do you think it needs to dry/stabilize after spraying water on the surface before it's usable (I sprayed it again about a week ago and it's about 8-10 feet from a dehumidifier that also has a fan blowing) and if it ends up not completely flattening, but will lay flat with a little pressure, is that okay for cutting, flipping on its side, and laminating?

If not, we will end up getting a different piece of wood for the neck and I'll just keep trying to flatten this one to use for something else in the future.

I think I'll have a small update on the body and router sled later today.

 

[Dadagoboi]

You got a bad piece of wood. It should have been dried properly to insure stability. It was not and will not machine properly. As soon as you cut, it it will start warping. You cannot fix what was improperly done by the wood vendor. Send it back. You'll save yourself a lot of trouble. Trouble is expected with exotic veneers, NOT with properly dried maple.

 

[lbridenstine]

Well, here's the top of the router sled. I've been having a bit of a challenge with figuring out how to cut the metal, but I finally got it. At first, I bought a bit for the Dremel to cut metal, but apparently it fits oscillating Dremels and not rotary Dremels, so it didn't fit mine. I exchanged it, but then the new ones have a diameter that is less than the diameter of the Dremel, so I can only cut like 2" off of the end of something, otherwise the Dremel body is up against the metal, which prevents the bit from even touching the metal. So... my dad got out his electric hacksaw and did the cuts for me while I was holding the end that wasn't clamped down and the whole thing was vibrating like crazy, but it worked and didn't take too long and no one got injured. It's not something I want to have to use again though. It didn't cut straight either, so I used the Dremel to cut the ends, then sanded them down a little. The Dremel left pretty nice cuts. I got all of the cuts except half of the last cut before the bit broke and I had to switch it out. Based on reviews I read before I started, it sounded like the bits break really often, so I thought I might break a few bits doing all of these cuts, but luckily it was only one.

Anyways... This should be a lot better than the MDF version I made before.

I have the rails and the melamine board cut too, I just need to mark where the holes in the metal pieces line up on the melamine and drill holes through that, then I can finish putting the whole thing together.

I actually bought more angle posts than I needed. I thought I grabbed two 4' lengths and one 3'. I was going to use the 3' cut in half for the rails and use the two 4' ones to make up the rectangle (and have scraps). But, turns out I somehow got two 5' and one 4' and didn't notice. Two 5 footers ended up being PERFECT for this whole thing, so I didn't even touch the other one and will probably end up returning it.


I *think* I should get this thing done tomorrow and be able to finally use it to level the burl and thickness the mahogany. I made the top of the sled almost 3' long and my plan for that is to put clamps on the rails on each side of the sled to lock it in place and be able to slide the router across the sled to do truss rod routes, which would be a lot easier than the way I have been doing truss rod routes until now.

 

[lbridenstine]

You got a bad piece of wood. It should have been dried properly to insure stability. It was not and will not machine properly. As soon as you cut, it it will start warping. You cannot fix what was improperly done by the wood vendor. Send it back. You'll save yourself a lot of trouble. Trouble is expected with exotic veneers, NOT with properly dried maple.

I've seen a lot of people on here and other forums successfully flatten bowed boards and use them. The wood was kiln dried and, as far as I know, was flat when it shipped, but it was shipped from Oregon to Michigan, so I think the environmental difference could have been the issue. If I get a new board for this, I'm going to try to get it from somewhere much closer to here and I'll make sure to do that in the future for any wood that's going to be made into a neck too.

 

[Deep Cat]

Wood moves. The notion that it "stabilizes" isn't entirely accurate. It will move one way or another due to changing atmospheric conditions, pretty much forever.

I think that idea that the board is bad is overstating it a bit. I don't have any experience with the OPs problem, so I can't really weigh in on that, but I don't think you can really expect wood to "stabilize" short of changing its nature, like laminating it or infusing it with an epoxy or something. Even then, it's going to want to, but the forces at hand will counter balance it.

If it were me, I'd get it close enough to "join" with finger pressure then glue and clamp the crap out of it. the guy in the embedded video took a pretty flat drop top and then bent on the sides to conform to his contour.



Maybe you can take the inadvertent contours and force them flat to the body core. I'd really like it if some more experienced folks weighed in on this.

 

[Harry Cahyadi]

I've seen a lot of people on here and other forums successfully flatten bowed boards and use them. The wood was kiln dried and, as far as I know, was flat when it shipped, but it was shipped from Oregon to Michigan, so I think the environmental difference could have been the issue. If I get a new board for this, I'm going to try to get it from somewhere much closer to here and I'll make sure to do that in the future for any wood that's going to be made into a neck too.

I think it depends on the size of the board. You need to steam it.

I have managed to straighten a slightly warped neck (slightly bowed and twisted).

Here is the way I did it. It might not be the perfect way of doing it, but it worked for me.

Good luck.


Harry

 

[lbridenstine]

For more info, it's about 4 feet long, 5.5" wide, 7/8" thick. It's going to be cut in strips, flipped 90 degrees, and laminated together with veneer in between. It will make up a neck through length neck. I can already push it flat with just a finger, but I know that once I cut and flip the pieces, the gap will be twice as big for some opposing pieces if the bows face towards each other. If we'd be better off getting a new neck blank, then we can do that, but if we don't have to, it'd be nice to use this.

 

[Deep Cat]

Ah. I'm a bit of an idiot and was mistaken about the use you were putting the wood to. Still, you won't know if it will be or stay straight until you cut it close to the dimensions you want. Cutting it might actually relieve some of the internal pressure that could be causing the bend. Or make it bend more.

I'd say bend it or plane it to straightness, cut it and glue like the wind before it moves again.

Again, though, more experienced folk should weigh in on this.

 

[Harry Cahyadi]

For more info, it's about 4 feet long, 5.5" wide, 7/8" thick. It's going to be cut in strips, flipped 90 degrees, and laminated together with veneer in between. It will make up a neck through length neck. I can already push it flat with just a finger, but I know that once I cut and flip the pieces, the gap will be twice as big for some opposing pieces if the bows face towards each other. If we'd be better off getting a new neck blank, then we can do that, but if we don't have to, it'd be nice to use this.

I have a feeling that by cutting the board into strips, you will end up with bigger bow. The bow is caused by the length. The longer the piece. it has a higher tendency to bow.

The difficult part here is, you can't really take out too much thickness off the board.

I'm not sure how much bow you have, I'm assuming it is not much (you mentioned that you can push it flat with one finger).
You could possibly try to plane the board with your router sled, but don't clamp it to the bench or apply any pressure to it. Just let it sit naturally under your sled
Don't use thicknesser planer, because it press the board flat, so you might end up with thinner board with the same amount of bow.

However, it is entirely your call, if you think that it wouldn't work, you might want to get another board and use this one to make smaller stuff.

 

[Dadagoboi]

Yeah, some wood bows after it's dried. When you buy the stuff you select the boards that aren't bowed. There's a LOT of maple in MI. Shop local.

 

[mapleglo]

Well, here's the top of the router sled. I've been having a bit of a challenge with figuring out how to cut the metal, but I finally got it. At first, I bought a bit for the Dremel to cut metal, but apparently it fits oscillating Dremels and not rotary Dremels, so it didn't fit mine. I exchanged it, but then the new ones have a diameter that is less than the diameter of the Dremel, so I can only cut like 2" off of the end of something, otherwise the Dremel body is up against the metal, which prevents the bit from even touching the metal. So... my dad got out his electric hacksaw and did the cuts for me while I was holding the end that wasn't clamped down and the whole thing was vibrating like crazy, but it worked and didn't take too long and no one got injured. It's not something I want to have to use again though. It didn't cut straight either, so I used the Dremel to cut the ends, then sanded them down a little. The Dremel left pretty nice cuts. I got all of the cuts except half of the last cut before the bit broke and I had to switch it out. Based on reviews I read before I started, it sounded like the bits break really often, so I thought I might break a few bits doing all of these cuts, but luckily it was only one.

Anyways... This should be a lot better than the MDF version I made before.

I have the rails and the melamine board cut too, I just need to mark where the holes in the metal pieces line up on the melamine and drill holes through that, then I can finish putting the whole thing together.

I actually bought more angle posts than I needed. I thought I grabbed two 4' lengths and one 3'. I was going to use the 3' cut in half for the rails and use the two 4' ones to make up the rectangle (and have scraps). But, turns out I somehow got two 5' and one 4' and didn't notice. Two 5 footers ended up being PERFECT for this whole thing, so I didn't even touch the other one and will probably end up returning it.


I *think* I should get this thing done tomorrow and be able to finally use it to level the burl and thickness the mahogany. I made the top of the sled almost 3' long and my plan for that is to put clamps on the rails on each side of the sled to lock it in place and be able to slide the router across the sled to do truss rod routes, which would be a lot easier than the way I have been doing truss rod routes until now.

This is awesome, and a great idea. I think I'm going to build something just like it.

 

[lbridenstine]

Ah. I'm a bit of an idiot and was mistaken about the use you were putting the wood to. Still, you won't know if it will be or stay straight until you cut it close to the dimensions you want. Cutting it might actually relieve some of the internal pressure that could be causing the bend. Or make it bend more.

I'd say bend it or plane it to straightness, cut it and glue like the wind before it moves again.

Again, though, more experienced folk should weigh in on this.

I have a feeling that by cutting the board into strips, you will end up with bigger bow. The bow is caused by the length. The longer the piece. it has a higher tendency to bow.

The difficult part here is, you can't really take out too much thickness off the board.

I'm not sure how much bow you have, I'm assuming it is not much (you mentioned that you can push it flat with one finger).
You could possibly try to plane the board with your router sled, but don't clamp it to the bench or apply any pressure to it. Just let it sit naturally under your sled
Don't use thicknesser planer, because it press the board flat, so you might end up with thinner board with the same amount of bow.

However, it is entirely your call, if you think that it wouldn't work, you might want to get another board and use this one to make smaller stuff.

Using it to make smaller stuff might be the way to go. I'll see if there's any change before I decide...

Yeah, some wood bows after it's dried. When you buy the stuff you select the boards that aren't bowed. There's a LOT of maple in MI. Shop local.

They usually put it in the description if a board has a bow and this one didn't say anything except it had some planer marks, so I assumed that meant it didn't have a bow. I know there's a lot of maple in MI, but I don't know exactly where to get a figured piece in those dimensions that's hard maple, dry, and without it costing more than this. One place I've been to has lots of maple in a lot of different sizes, but none of it is flamed and it's all super expensive. Another place I've been to has only soft maple. Another place has flamed hard maple, but it's not long enough.

I found a place that looks like it's in Ohio that I'm considering ordering from and e-mailing them about it beforehand to make sure it's flat.

This is awesome, and a great idea. I think I'm going to build something just like it.

I can't take credit, I got the idea here: Invalid Link Removed

I did get the sled together today and used it for a while, but I didn't get anything actually done. The mahogany is thick enough for the body by itself, so I have to take the thickness down in order to add the top.

The new router sled does seem to work better than the one I made before, so that's good! I think I might add something smoother to the part where the router base sits so it slides easier.

The only annoying thing about making the sled this way is adjusting the nuts for height and making sure it's all level after moving them, but I'm thinking I could do angled neck pockets and things like that with this too, so that makes it more worth it.


Oh yeah, if you make this, make it wider than mine. I thought through adding length for the distance from the router bit to the edge of the base for the length, but apparently not for the width, so I can only do about 2/3rds of a body at a time.

 

[wraub]

For something smoother to aid sliding the router base, perhaps something like this:

http://www.findtape.com/product256/JVCC-PTFE-2HD-Skived-Teflon-Tape.aspx

 

[Nidan]

nice work , I've been finishing up a buckeye burl guitar , love the look but oh it is fragile .

 

[lbridenstine]

For something smoother to aid sliding the router base, perhaps something like this:

http://www.findtape.com/product256/JVCC-PTFE-2HD-Skived-Teflon-Tape.aspx

That could probably work. I used the sled again today and it seems like I might not need to add anything now. Maybe it just needed to be broken in or something.

nice work , I've been finishing up a buckeye burl guitar , love the look but oh it is fragile .

It is, I've just been babying it and it's been okay so far. Got any pictures?

 

[lbridenstine]

I realized that this would work better if I turned these ends so the wall part of the angle is against the rail, because otherwise the sled can lift up onto the rail and end up raising that side by the thickness of the metal. So I turned them around, but since the holes aren't centered on the posts, the sled didn't fit on the rails anymore, so I had to turn the rails to face the other way too. It all works perfectly now.

Halfway done with thicknessing.

It actually routed extremely smoothly and very flat. I'm so glad I made the new router sled!

I only had to very lightly go over it with sandpaper, mostly just to take down the fuzziness of the mahogany.

I did the other side too to make sure it's flat.

So now, here's the thing. I have to level the buckeye burl and neither side is really flat enough to tape down to the table part of the router sled yet. I know once I get one side flat, the other shouldn't be a problem, but how do I get the first side flat?

 

[saltymonkey]

What about using some wedges to keep the underside from rocking while routing the first side?

 

[miziomix]

Hey Lisa! Nice combo. Great Burl Following!

 

[Nidan]

As requested , the buckeye burl I've been working on . The core is lacewood , the back claro walnut . Maple/ ebony neck

 

[lbridenstine]

What about using some wedges to keep the underside from rocking while routing the first side?

I'll try it, but it's kind of difficult because the burl is so soft, lightweight, and flexible that it can bend down or pop up or do whatever it wants.

Hey Lisa! Nice combo. Great Burl Following!

Thank you!

As requested , the buckeye burl I've been working on . The core is lacewood , the back claro walnut . Maple/ ebony neck

Wow! You got a really blue piece! That looks great.