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5 string tuning (EADGC vc BEADG)

C

chjohnst

Nov 24, 2008
465
3
#1
Before people say "use the search", I did an exhaustive search this weekend on the forums here for some information as well as the Warwick forums. I also went down to guitar center (twice) to ask a bunch of questions around this topic. Now obviously each player is different here but I am bit lost and could use some guidance from more experienced players.

A little background, I picked up a 5 string warwick this week and I am going from a 4 string bass which I learned on. I have a pretty aggressive playing style, slap style, rock, funk, etc. My reasoning for getting a 5 string was mostly because I wanted a new challenge for myself as well as a want for more frets to work with vertically on the scale then a 4 string has to offer. I have pretty big hands and the Warwick neck is reasonably less wide then other basses I played so it felt pretty comfortable in my hands. Plus the price was right on the bass.

When I was discussing the purchase with the salesmen he mentioned he also plays a 5 string bass and I was asking him about strings and tuning of a 5 string. He mentioned that he tunes his Fender with EADGC instead of the usual BEADG. I asked him why and he said mentioned that he very rarely used the low B and found himself using the high C for fills and solos more often so it was wasteful for him to have the low B.

So what I found in my research is a lot of people mention it can be bad for the neck to change from an EADGC tuning because of the tension on the neck with the different string sizes. So I am concerned about attempting this tuning and damaging my new bass. I am also curious if I am venturing down the wrong road here and should continue learning to play with the low B. I know there is no "proper" tuning, but I am not looking to make the learning experience more difficult either. EADGC seems a bit more natural for me I guess since its similar to the tuning a 4 string bass.

Anyway some guidance here what would be great as strings get expensive (I bought a 6 string d'addorio string pack in order to test this).

-Chris
 
#2
You will need to do a proper "set up" if moving to the high C. As far as which is more useful B to G vs E to C it's really about music style and personal goals. I personally have no use for a high C tuned bass as I play rock, blues & country and rarely solo. For the projects I do, working the pocket is more important than say a jazz or funk project which could benefit from a more melodic approach. As always YMMV & have fun with it.
 
#4
To each his own. I tune to BEADG and don't use the G string much at all. Well, I don't hang on the B string a lot, but I love that low end for tossing in a 5th below the E through Ab on the E string. Then it's also nice having a fretted low E. Those are only 2 reasons for my liking the B string on a 5'er.
 
#5
There is little or no difference in tension on the neck between EADGC and BEADG, assuming of course you are using the correct set of strings (top 5 of a 6-string set for EADGC). You will however need a setup and possibly a new nut (but don't the warwicks have adjustable nuts? I've never played one personally).

It all comes down to the music you play. Do you need higher notes than a 4 string, or lower notes? :)
 
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#6
I play 5-string and 6-string basses. The reason 5-string basses were developed was that bass players wanted to be able to drop down to the lower D. Thus, the drop-D tuner was developed that would enable 4 string bass players to play the low D quickly.

I would recommend starting with the standard tuning of BEADG. Resting your thumb on the low string, you will be very comfortable in playing the low notes when needed.

Also, another big benefit is that you will be able to pick up any 4, 5 or 6 string bass and not get confused on the strings.
 
#8
I've got my 5er strung E-C, I absolutely LOVE it. The only adjustments I had to make were very small and now its playing smooth.

The C string allows for a huge amount of chord voices and is great for soloing.

Beware: It does NOT sound like a G string but higher. I don't like the timbre of the C string untill the 7 fret or so. Also, on my bass it seems like I have to get the string really high (atleast it feels that way) to keep from getting fret buzz. Finally, buying strings is a *****.You have to buy a 6er set, or a single but not all companys do that.

Oh, I found it less natural with the C string, but give it a shot. Good luck and let us know how it goes!
 
#9
One thing thats throwing me off is that I am used to slapping with alot of open E slaps with some muting on other frets for the percussive element. Now I have a fatter/bigger string (.130) versus (.105) so its a bit of getting used too for me. Plus most songs that I am used to playing are from a 4 string so I am spending time converting them to a 5 string.

I guess what I want to know is aside from adjusting the truss rod to deal with the new tension is there anything else I should be concerned about.

And yes supposedly the warwick has an adjustable nut. On the neck there is a plastic shim that can be moved up and down as needed depending on the string/tuning you want to go with.
 
#11
chjohnst said:
So what I found in my research is a lot of people mention it can be bad for the neck to change from an EADGC tuning because of the tension on the neck with the different string sizes. So I am concerned about attempting this tuning and damaging my new bass.
Click to expand...

Chris,

I find it hard to believe that "a lot" of people find this to be true, because it's simply wrong. Taking D'addario's EXL170-6 Regular Light six-string nickleplated set as an example, the low-B puts 34.5 lbs of tension on the neck compared to 38.9 lbs by the high-C string. That means you'd only be adding 4.4 lbs of tension to the total of 172.6 lbs of the B-G strings of that set. That's a minuscule difference compared to say the G, which is "all the way" up at 51.3 lbs of tension. A slight adjusting of your truss rod and setup to your preferences and most likely a new nut due to the size differences of the strings and having your E rattle not held firmly in the space cut for a .130 B along with every other string. Physically, there should be no problem whatsoever if the above is done.


I am also curious if I am venturing down the wrong road here and should continue learning to play with the low B. I know there is no "proper" tuning, but I am not looking to make the learning experience more difficult either. EADGC seems a bit more natural for me I guess since its similar to the tuning a 4 string bass.
Click to expand...

I don't see that this is a matter of "right" or "wrong" roads of learning, but a simple choice of yours based on your style of playing. I personally fell in love with the first B-string that I played, used 5 & 6-strings exclusively for almost a decade before rediscovering the "relative ease" of a four-string in the past year or two, but my mainstays by far are 5-string basses strung BEADG with 80% of my basses being 5s or higher. Still, I'd like at some point to pick up a 5-string to string EADGC like you for the increased upper range, tapping and choral playing to replace my six as it is far too heavy for my back surgery-inflicted Spinal Column to deal with. Many players string BEADGC or ADGC "Tenor Bass" on a 4-string. I'd perhaps play it for a little while strung "as-is" and see if the low-B does anything for you, but if not no big deal. Restring and don't look back.

Anyway some guidance here what would be great as strings get expensive (I bought a 6 string d'addorio string pack in order to test this)
Click to expand...

I can't be much help here as I actually love D'addarios and use them 95% of my time (I have to order a custom set for my coursed 10-string from SIT) but I tried out a set of Pedulla Steels for a session once and *loved* the bright, piano-like chime I got from their stainless steels. DR Hi-Beams left me very unimpressed and GHS sound completely bland to me, but that's all I can give. I found "my" sound string-wise in D'addario ProSteels (with their EXP coated string on my fretless) and have little desire to change what isn't broken.

Hope this was of some help to you!

~Ian
 
#12
I went from a B-G to an E-C and made no modifications to the nut
I used the same strings (D'addario 6 string roundwounds) and everything played fine
some people like the low B and some like the high C. I rarely went lower than the E and I liked the high C for chords and tapping. Try both since you have the 6 string set (just keep the string lengths long I know a lot of people but some of the silks short) and see which works for you..If they both sound and feel great you may want to look at a 6 string in the future
 
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#13
As has been said, you'll need a new nut, so why not upgrade to bone or brass for a small tonal improvement. If you go to [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] you can see the individual tensions for the different gauges of strings they sell. The .130 B string in a set of D'addario Prosteels is a cool 10.1 pounds less taut than the .030 C string in the same set. This means you'll need to adjust the truss rod accordingly as well.

As far as B vs. C, I gig with a 5 and 6 on a regular basis and I find the B string more useful just for playing lower notes and playing regular parts in 5th position where the frets are closer together. I do use the C string but more for closed chord voicings or being lazy and staying in the same position instead of running up the neck. For meat and potatoes bass parts I think the B string is much more useful. YMMV as always.
 
#14
Ian - from my reading on forums and what not thats what I read on a few threads. I did the same thing as you by looking at the tensions on the strings and realizing its not that much more tuning to an E vs the B. I think I can see myself playing a 6 string in the future, maybe. I kind of found the 4 string to be limiting myself so I went with the 5 string.

Since I bought the 6 string set it gives me some flexibility to try out EADGC.

-Chris
 
#15
I recently restrung my 5 in EADGC, well, DADGC tuned down a half step, but pretty much the same difference. The change in string tension affected the relief and action, and it required a complete setup and trussrod adjustment to get it back to normal.

After a week or two of playing it and still getting some annoying fret buzz below the seventh fret, I decided to adjust the nut slots by adding a drop of epoxy into three lowest slots. Now I have perfectly low action and no buzz whatsoever. For what its worth, this is on an Ibanez SR505...
 
#16
I ordered one of my Warwick Streamer Stage II 5-strings from the US Warwick distributor, Dana B. Goods, and requested that they set it up with EADGC tuning. I asked if it would need a different nut for this tuning. I was surprised when they told me that it wouldn't need a new nut and they explained to me that they had done this before for other Warwick artists and that it does not need a new nut. The way my Warwick adjust-a-nut cradles the string allows it to sit still even though it is a thinner string. In my experience the E string doesn't rattle or move around on mine at all. Be careful though that the bridge on Warwicks are meant for exposed or taper core B-strings and some thicker E strings won't fit or will have to be "squeezed" in there.

I thought the the C string was cool but I also have the B string on other 5's that I have. For what I play, the B is probably a little more useful.:cool:
 
#19
I play an E to C, by choice. Most of the low Bs I have tried don't sound solid until the third or 4 th fret. Exceptions would include Lakland 5s, and a few other reasonably expensive basses.

Originally, I tried it so that I could jam with my brother, a keyboardist who likes to do some of the low end with his left hand, and I figured, why not give it a go. Now, I totally prefer it.

I have restrung five or six bases, and have never had to change a nut. About half of the time, I didn't need to change the set up at all. I have never had to adjust a truss rod from switching strings, because as pointed out above, the tension is not materially different.

My band (The Feral Catz) includes 2 guitars, bass and drums, and the hi C works fine. Both guitarists play Taylor T-5s, and one is a 12 string. My 35 inch scale bass cuts through better with the hi C than it did with the low B. The old Kay upright 5s were originally developed to accomodate a hi C, so that players didn't have to play thumbs in the upper registers. Alghough most players with those DBs now string them with a low B, using a hi C is an older idea than many of us may want to think.

As far as strings, hi Cs are available as single strings, just as are low Bs. I use DR Sunbeams. I buy the best priced 4 string set I can and then buy the hi C online, usually 30s. Way less expensive than buying a 6 string set and having an expensive extra B.

Untimately, the hi C seems more natural to me, though I use it mostly for accent and the occasional octave. It allows staying in the first or second position instead of going up the neck in some of the key signatures we frequently play. Plus, as an occasional dabbler with six string guitar, having a higher range was not counter-intuitive.

The moral of this rambling post is that it boils down entirely to your personal preference. You many not need a new nut (in my experience, never) and set-ups will vary instrument to instrument.

To hear a hi C in action, try this link:

http://www.sonicbids.com/TheFeralCatz

Under the audio button, listen to No Flippin' Money. (No, you won't need to hear the whole 5 minutes to get the idea.) The opening bass riff is an e octave played at the 7th fret, and the higest note in that riff, a G, is played on the 7th fret, on the C string, without change of position.

Trying out a tuning with a hi C is not dangerous to yourself or your instrument. It is not hard to do. In the end it is about finding your own voice. There is no wrong answer. Go forth and play from your heart, whichever you choose.
 
#20
i have a musicman stingray 5 string that was bought as a low b 5 and i changed it to a high c 5 about 2 years ago. never had any problems and the bass sounds and plays great. you will need to have the bass setup or adjust everything yourself but the string tension isn't different enough to cause any problems.
 

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