6 String guitarists dictating the bass lines..do they get it?

[Chris Cantor]

I am in the midst of starting up a band.
Having issues with my guitarist.
He is very rigid and demands I play very simple bass lines.
To the point, I am getting very frustrated.
If I try to add some colour by playing walk up notes to the root, he has a fit.
He demands I just pound the root note.
We are all in our 50’s and 60’s and this is more of a hobby band, with hopes Of playing play local pubs, picnics, etc when get enough songs together.
I discussed this with my bass teacher and his opinion was..
If you are paying me,
I will play it the way you wish.
If not, then, I will play it the way I think it should be.
He also commented that this attitude is common with guitar players.
My thoughts are...
I am bored pounding the root note, it’s not challenging me.
I want the chance to add some colour.
I am not trying play over everyone and be the star.
Any thoughts..

I am in the midst of starting up a band.
Having issues with my guitarist.
He is very rigid and demands I play very simple bass lines.
To the point, I am getting very frustrated.
If I try to add some colour by playing walk up notes to the root, he has a fit.
He demands I just pound the root note.
We are all in our 50’s and 60’s and this is more of a hobby band, with hopes Of playing play local pubs, picnics, etc when get enough songs together.
I discussed this with my bass teacher and his opinion was..
If you are paying me,
I will play it the way you wish.
If not, then, I will play it the way I think it should be.
He also commented that this attitude is common with guitar players.
My thoughts are...
I am bored pounding the root note, it’s not challenging me.
I want the chance to add some colour.
I am not trying play over everyone and be the star.
Any thoughts..

 

[Xyth]

If you're playing what's on the album and he ain't paying you, then he can go jump in a lake. You're there to have fun and support the song, not his ego. Try get your other bandmates on your side.

 

[sunnyboy010101]

I've posted once, and been following the thread as well. It got me thinking some more about the overall scenario as discussed (oh-oh! :-O)

Anyway, I have had similar situations - not just the one I mentioned previously, but more recently when I joined a "blues club" which is pretty popular where I live. I've not played the blues much before, but was having great fun learning the bass for it.

Eventually I got "corrected" by the main guitar player. Several times. Seems I wasn't playing the bass line "properly". Rather than get annoyed, I asked him to explain. Turns out that (surprise, surprise), there are several dozen recordings (and then some) of the more popular blues tunes. This guitar player had fixated on one particular record, while I'd been trying to mirror the "general tone" of the various bass lines in several of the records.

He wanted HIS FAVORITE. NO EXCEPTIONS. When I pointed out that almost no-one else did the bass line in the song like that record, he got really angry and started hollering and all that good vibe stuff. I just waited him out and then told him to blow it out his ear as this was "supposed to be jamming" and not cover band crap. At that point the other folks chimed in and pointed out that he (the guitar god) wasn't playing the guitar part anything like the record either. He ended up agreeing (!!!) and then noted the drummer was playing a different version as well, so in the end we all agreed that "blending" was more fun.

I've since learned to ask up front whether we're "just having fun" or if we're attempting to duplicate some specific cover right at the start. It has ended up saving a lot of grief if one person has a bee in their bonnet about some version while everyone else doesn't. Sometimes we go with that version (hey, learning something new), other times we don't. At least we know going in where expectations lie.

As for listening to the record to resolve disputes - that's a laugh. I've found that like car crashes, no two people hear things in a record the same way. You might as well try and figure out what Manfred Man was really saying in "Blinded by the Light". ;-)

 

[StatesideRambler]

As for listening to the record to resolve disputes - that's a laugh. I've found that like car crashes, no two people hear things in a record the same way. You might as well try and figure out what Manfred Man was really saying in "Blinded by the Light". ;-)

[SMIRK]Try Springsteen’s recording; it’s so much clearer![/SMIRK]

 

[Ian Lewis]

I am in the midst of starting up a band.
Having issues with my guitarist.
He is very rigid and demands I play very simple bass lines.
To the point, I am getting very frustrated.
If I try to add some colour by playing walk up notes to the root, he has a fit.
He demands I just pound the root note.
We are all in our 50’s and 60’s and this is more of a hobby band, with hopes Of playing play local pubs, picnics, etc when get enough songs together.
I discussed this with my bass teacher and his opinion was..
If you are paying me,
I will play it the way you wish.
If not, then, I will play it the way I think it should be.
He also commented that this attitude is common with guitar players.
My thoughts are...
I am bored pounding the root note, it’s not challenging me.
I want the chance to add some colour.
I am not trying play over everyone and be the star.
Any thoughts..

Providing it's appropriate to the song, play what you feel is right. If you're playing covers, play what's on the record (I can't think of many songs that require just root notes). Otherwise you may need to find another guitarist, or band

 

[bigtone23]

EVH used to tout how much he loved Michael Anthony's simple parts because "he plays bass, not guitar parts on a bass." It left EVH more room to do what he does, sure. But in the end, MA also added little things that only a bassist thinks of.
Keep it simple, but hold your ground for the flourishes that only a bassist can add to a song.

 

[oldrocker]

just playing roots only will be tantamount to a Cliff Williams or a Dusty Hill, in which context, 95% roots is appropriate and right. However NO bassist can just play root notes without any connecting tones between chords (mostly). ...

Actually Dusty is a master of the connecting note. Even a simple tune like "Tush" has variations and not just roots.

 

[merseymale]

I am in the midst of starting up a band.
Having issues with my guitarist.
He is very rigid and demands I play very simple bass lines.
To the point, I am getting very frustrated.
If I try to add some colour by playing walk up notes to the root, he has a fit.
He demands I just pound the root note.
We are all in our 50’s and 60’s and this is more of a hobby band, with hopes Of playing play local pubs, picnics, etc when get enough songs together.
I discussed this with my bass teacher and his opinion was..
If you are paying me,
I will play it the way you wish.
If not, then, I will play it the way I think it should be.
He also commented that this attitude is common with guitar players.
My thoughts are...
I am bored pounding the root note, it’s not challenging me.
I want the chance to add some colour.
I am not trying play over everyone and be the star.
Any thoughts..

It’s taken nearly 30 years as a drummer for me to learn what your bass teacher has told you!

If ‘Jimi’ wants to play the bass as well as the six string fine BUT if you are the bass player then you’re the bass player.

end of.

Yes the amount of bands I am in/get to hang with/play live with Has DRASTICALLY reduced since coming to this conclusion I can honestly report that my happiness/contentment/self-respect has shot through the roof!

When you do a performance and you’re inundated with people in the audience coming up to you afterward saying “why the hell are you playing too many notes“; when you have people shouting abuse from the audience “get rid of the bass player“ then sure maybe it’s time for a rethink but until those unlikely events don’t sweat it!

I happen to be a huge fan of punk music (the earlier the better) and yes the type of technique your guitarist seems to be espousing WOULD perfectly fit that style but history shows there are so many exceptions to the rule on every single thing...

indeed nowadays if you want to play live maybe it’s good to stand out somewhat

I notice people asking advice on forums often, deep down, know the real answer to their question and the fact is, deep down, you must know you would never say what what you’re being told back to that guitarist so this is just one of the (far too) many occasions where an insider is sabotaging a creative relationship.

If you can stomach/get a kick out of putting up with this kind of thing AND (yes that’s a big and!) feel that musically/creatively the band is worth it then by all means subjugate your beliefs and hard-won technique but never ever say that this is a hobby! You would, in this scenario, be making a personal sacrifice for art and that’s a very noble thing (honest!)

If, as I suspect, you wouldn’t feel comfortable about witnessing someone else being put through that kind of behaviour in front of you or if you would feel ashamed if someone pointed out that kind of behaviour in yourself then, as I’ve implied earlier, you already know what you’re going to do, Yeah?

Let me stretch this out further (!) By giving an example of the (far too!!) Recent band that made the penny drop for me -I don’t have as good a tutor as you!

I was in a band for years that was much more than a hobby... we were formed by a singer songwriter who would’ve written our first songs by himself on his own and therefore they had very idiosyncratic rhythms & syncopations, if you can call it that, and all manner of weirdness going on in the songs

I was the proud owner of three drum kits and countless symbals and our bass player insisted on playing in a very wonderful varied and complicated way but was wonderfully consistent

Cut a long story short I deliberately ended up with one floor Tom and one snare and that was it rather than thwart the bass player and being part of a rhythm section that overly dominated our front man we, instead of re-educating this guitarist on the notion of not speeding up and slowing down or throwing in extra bars and bits, we just practised till we were tight and solid around him and gave him space and scope the result was IMHO a distinctive new sound

unfortunately our singer song writer eventually made it very obvious that despite what he was saying with words what he was actually doing with actions was having all this as his solo act and us as his expendable backing band

since I put my foot down his band Have never done a single gig in more than a year and I would not like to put money on when they’ll next gig...

I understand that they’ve auditioned and even taken on various drummers over the months and yet no luck

Could it really be that no other drummer with a full drum kit, as I now understand they are going with, cannot do what I can do with no cymbals & just a snare & floor Tom (don’t get me wrong I am good but not THAT good!)?

The truth is if someone’s going to be allowed to be a primadonna then nothing is going to go right with that band and the sooner you start teaching a lesson or leave and let someone else do that then the sooner you can get into a musical situation that DOES suit you

The band, in a way, it’s like any relationship -would you marry someone who didn’t respect you in the hope that eventually they would..?

 

[merseymale]

It’s taken nearly 30 years as a drummer for me to learn what your bass teacher has told you!

If ‘Jimi’ wants to play the bass as well as the six string fine BUT if you are the bass player then you’re the bass player.

end of.

Yes the amount of bands I am in/get to hang with/play live with Has DRASTICALLY reduced since coming to this conclusion I can honestly report that my happiness/contentment/self-respect has shot through the roof!

When you do a performance and you’re inundated with people in the audience coming up to you afterward saying “why the hell are you playing too many notes“; when you have people shouting abuse from the audience “get rid of the bass player“ then sure maybe it’s time for a rethink but until those unlikely events don’t sweat it!

I happen to be a huge fan of punk music (the earlier the better) and yes the type of technique your guitarist seems to be espousing WOULD perfectly fit that style but history shows there are so many exceptions to the rule on every single thing...

indeed nowadays if you want to play live maybe it’s good to stand out somewhat

I notice people asking advice on forums often, deep down, know the real answer to their question and the fact is, deep down, you must know you would never say what what you’re being told back to that guitarist so this is just one of the (far too) many occasions where an insider is sabotaging a creative relationship.

If you can stomach/get a kick out of putting up with this kind of thing AND (yes that’s a big and!) feel that musically/creatively the band is worth it then by all means subjugate your beliefs and hard-won technique but never ever say that this is a hobby! You would, in this scenario, be making a personal sacrifice for art and that’s a very noble thing (honest!)

If, as I suspect, you wouldn’t feel comfortable about witnessing someone else being put through that kind of behaviour in front of you or if you would feel ashamed if someone pointed out that kind of behaviour in yourself then, as I’ve implied earlier, you already know what you’re going to do, Yeah?

Let me stretch this out further (!) By giving an example of the (fat too!!) Recent band that made the penny drop for me -I don’t have as good a tutor as you!

I was in a band for years that was much more than a hobby... we were formed by a singer songwriter who would’ve written our first songs by himself on his own and therefore they had very idiosyncratic rhythms & syncopations, if you can call it that, and all manner of weirdness going on in the songs

I was the proud owner of three drum kits and countless symbals and our bass player insisted on playing in a very wonderful varied and complicated way but was wonderfully consistent

Cut a long story short I deliberately ended up with one floor Tom and one snare and that was it rather than thwart the bass player and being part of a rhythm section but overly dominated our front man and instead of re-educating this guitarist on the notion of not speeding up and slowing down or throwing in extra bars and bits we just practised till we were tight and solid around him and gave him space and scope the result was IMHO a distinctive new sound

unfortunately our singer song writer eventually made it very obvious that despite what he was saying with words what he was actually doing with actions was having all this as his solo act and us as his expendable backing band

since I put my foot down his band Have never done a single gig in more than a year and I would not like to put money on when they’ll next gig...

I understand that they’ve auditioned and even taken on various drummers over the months and yet no luck

Could it really be that no other drummer with a full drum kit, as I now understand they are going with, cannot do what I can do with no cymbals & just a snare & floor Tom (don’t get me wrong I am good but not THAT good!)?

The truth is if someone’s going to be allowed to be a primadonna then nothing is going to go right with that band and the sooner you start teaching a lesson or leave and let someone else do that then the sooner you can get into a musical situation that DOES suit you

The band, in a way, it’s like any relationship -would you marry someone who didn’t respect you in the hope that eventually they would..?

W O W!!
Sorry but I’ve just re-read my “rant“ above and I apologise for the Length!

Maybe some people also use forums as a psychiatrist couch to unload!?!

anyhoo, Whatever the OP decides I hope it goes well and wish em the best of luck

 

[merseymale]

I am playing the lines on the record.
He demands very sparse drumming and bass.
I am thinking about quitting but..
I live in a relatively small town so I am afraid it will be difficult
to find another band to play with.
Being relatively new to the bass (18 months), It is still a positive situation for my growth.

“...It is still a positive situation for my growth”

Is it? ReALLY?!
Your -bass teacher obviously doesn’t think so and surely he/she is more experienced than you!

If that guitarist can get a band together so can you!
Turn to the others and say “wannabe in 2 bands? Come and play with me as well because I am Outta here!”

 

[merseymale]

"...gonna use my sad self, gonna use my fingers, gonna use my 'migination whoa... cause I, gonna make you see nobody else here, no one like me..." Surely I jest, but you all get my point. Tension and release baby, tension and release. Yeah, Brass in pocket, ccllasssic. If you're a trio, fill the voids.

Yep! Tell the guitarist “... you’re gonna use your fingers because is no one like me! “

(God! I just can’t leave this one alone can I!?)

 

[sunnyboy010101]

[SMIRK]Try Springsteen’s recording; it’s so much clearer![/SMIRK]

But that's my point. I've seen the lyrics as written by Springsteen. I've heard Springsteen's version. Same as the lyrics.

Then there's Manfred Mann's version. Whatever it is, I am still unable to reconcile what MM sings compared to the 'official' lyrics. "duchen in a romer in the night" ain't what Springsteen wrote. :-D

 

[merseymale]

Your guitarist might be badly communicating that something doesn’t feel right, but he doesn’t know what it is. If your rhythm (both start AND end of notes) is not clean and accurate, or if your tone/volume/dynamics are not quite there yet, a non-rhythm section player might hear that as being “too busy”. This may not be the case, but I try to learn something from every conflict. Even if they are wrong, you can learn something about controlling your attack or tone or whatever, that may help you in the future.

These are all VERY valid points but, and I might be wrong here, I felt the OP was suggesting that when he played the basic root notes there was no complaints…

Is it really a timing/technique/feel/dynamic issue?‍

 

[merseymale]

eff em..id rather play by myself in my basement with earphones in the cold and or dark ..naked, with cockroaches crawling all over me than give a guitar player like this one a chance for me to become his personal bass toy...life is too short to be unhappy playing music..oh...and i would probably say this out loud to him,,he obviously never had any bass player tell him which foot to step with,,and where he can stuff said foot.

Sounds like a kinky dungeon!!

But seriously, yes, the OP is not going to be on his deathbed thinking why oh why oh why didn’t I stay in that band longer!

 

[merseymale]

Well TBH those songs want mostly roots and 5s. There's a few places where a walkup would sound ok but not all over the songs, it would sound contrived. My BL has it right, he says your job (ie my job as bassist) is to walk the band around the corners. I love that description!

That IS a really cool description -I’ll Remember That!

 

[merseymale]

I just want to note, for future generations, that this thread marks the origination of the soon-to-be-classic acronym SMOTLE (Supreme Master Of The Low End).

Thank you, @JimmyM!

Future generations will surely thank us,

 

[merseymale]

I've had this experience pop up several times in classic rock bands.

My solution, I quit playing in classic rock bands and started playing in jazz ensembles. In jazz the guitarist usually has a hard enough time trying to comp and they have no idea how to construct walking bass lines.

 

[merseymale]

Fixed.

(Just kidding. Sort of.)

They shouldn’t have their opinions considered, after all they are soulless creations sent to test our faith, aren’t they?

(SERIOUSLY- I gotta stop posting!!)

 

[wysiwyg248]

I am in the midst of starting up a band.
Having issues with my guitarist.
He is very rigid and demands I play very simple bass lines.
To the point, I am getting very frustrated.
If I try to add some colour by playing walk up notes to the root, he has a fit.
He demands I just pound the root note.
We are all in our 50’s and 60’s and this is more of a hobby band, with hopes Of playing play local pubs, picnics, etc when get enough songs together.
I discussed this with my bass teacher and his opinion was..
If you are paying me,
I will play it the way you wish.
If not, then, I will play it the way I think it should be.
He also commented that this attitude is common with guitar players.
My thoughts are...
I am bored pounding the root note, it’s not challenging me.
I want the chance to add some colour.
I am not trying play over everyone and be the star.
Any thoughts..

Do not worry son, keep on playing the way you feel.
Even Jaco was thrown out of some bands in his early days for playing too many notes.

 

[merseymale]

Life is too short to be unhappy. Some folks love to crack the whip on ANYONE and EVERYONE. There are a LOT of bands where the members play the same music and play music for the same reasons that you are. I personally would walk away. Driving home from a practice or a gig and feeling GREAT about what you did is the most important thing. Driving to anything to do with the band and feeling bad before you even get there is not doing anybody good. All my best and happy turkey day.

Very True!
(Also I love answer number 164 and 165 sitting right next to each other and yet being SO different!!)