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6 String guitarists dictating the bass lines..do they get it?

#101
InhumanResource said:
We don't have enough information for that. If OP is soloing while they are trying to play hey ho someone has to be the voice of reason.
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OP has stated that he's just playing what's on the record. He did say he wanted the opportunity to add color, but my interpretation is that the guitarist has told him not to play any of the fills or flourishes that are on the original recordings, which is the color he'd like to add.

Those are simple songs but if you listen to them you will hear turnarounds in certain places. I just listened to Peaceful Easy Feeling to be sure I remembered it correctly and yes, there are walks up and down and little turnarounds in it.

If OP is playing those and being told to just play root-five or whatever and stay away from those other parts that are in the original recording, he's being asked to dumb down the songs.
 
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#102
LBS-bass said:
OP has stated that he's just playing what's on the record. He did say he wanted the opportunity to add color, but my interpretation is that the guitarist has told him not to play any of the fills or flourishes that are on the original recordings, which is the color he'd like to add.

Those are simple songs but if you listen to them you will hear turnarounds in certain places. I just listened to Peaceful Easy Feeling to be sure I remembered it correctly and yes, there are walks up and down and little turnarounds in it.

If OP is playing those and being told to just play root-five or whatever and stay away from those other parts that are in the original recording, he's being asked to dumb down the songs.
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Then they have to have a conversation about whether they want to do faithfully reproduced covers or something else. That's all. Either the guitarist doesn't want to play same as the record or OP is embellishing a little too much. Still don't have enough information without hearing it.
 
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#103
Really all we know is that this guitarist is asking band members to simplify their parts. I think firing the guitarist or quitting at this point is a bit premature. For all we know the guitarist is right, we are not there. As with most problems on talkbass with band members, the best solution is to talk it out with the guitarist at the time of the critique. The only mediator needed for that conversation is the original recording of the tune to refer back to when there is a disagreement.
 
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#105
I get it. At face value it seems like the same thing I had with my very first hand way back in high school.
Lead guitar player was decent, but a huge pita because he was very paranoid of anyone coming cose to his side of the store. I had vocals and spotted a couple songs that could benefit from adding rhythm guitar playing mostly open chords. Guitar dude wanted no part of that whatsoever. My gues was that as long as there was only one guitarist there was no chance that anyone would ever show up with more talent and steal his show. Believe me he was safe...
 
#106
People can be petty. I once told a guitarist that they should to play the lead part of an intro as recorded because it's a signature lick for the song. Later he started criticizing me because I walked up instead of down for a few notes. That startup band didn't last long.
 
#107
LBS-bass said:
OP has stated that he's just playing what's on the record. He did say he wanted the opportunity to add color, but my interpretation is that the guitarist has told him not to play any of the fills or flourishes that are on the original recordings, which is the color he'd like to add.

Those are simple songs but if you listen to them you will hear turnarounds in certain places. I just listened to Peaceful Easy Feeling to be sure I remembered it correctly and yes, there are walks up and down and little turnarounds in it.

If OP is playing those and being told to just play root-five or whatever and stay away from those other parts that are in the original recording, he's being asked to dumb down the songs.
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Bingo!!!
 
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#110
I really like the idea of a sort of mission statement or some sort of band philosophy that clearly outlines things like resolving disagreements, goals, leadership, finding the middle ground, keeping everyone happy, etc, etc. I also think it's good idea to bring in a third person to sort out differences, and to help keep the band moving in the right direction... Success!
 
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#111
oldrocker said:
I'MO life is too short to play with people like this. I would suggest to find other people to play with.

Good luck.
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Yes, absolutely! But OP, you also could have some fun with this. Just say okay, and play the roots the way your guitarist insists one time. Then resume playing the bass line the way you think it should be played. Rinse. Repeat.

One of two things will probably happen. Either your band mates will chime in and tell the guitarist to back off and that will be the end of it (you could always talk to them about this, you know!). Or, the guitarist will get it that you are not going to listen to him no matter how much of a fit he pitches, and he'll either knock it off or rage quit. Guitarists are a dime a dozen.

I think if you get fired, when this guy tries to bad rap you in your music community he will expose himself instead. You just take the position that if somebody wishes to express their opinions about your bass lines your always fully open to that. Which most of the time you should be anyway, as JimmyM mentioned.

So you can either draw the line in the sand with a rigid approach and make it a stand off, or have a little fun with a situation like that which is what I would probably do, just because I'm that guy sometimes. Either way, life is too short to play with people like your guitarist. He might just need a little training, though. Good luck.
 
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#112
Nevada Pete said:
Yes, absolutely! But OP, you also could have some fun with this. Just say okay, and play the roots the way your guitarist insists one time. Then resume playing the bass line the way you think they should be played. Rinse. Repeat.

One of two things will probably happen. Either your band mates will chime in and tell the guitarist to back off and that will be the end of it (you could always talk to them about this, you know!). Or, the guitarist will get it that you are not going to listen to him no matter how much of a fit he pitches, and he'll either knock it off or rage quit. Guitarists are a dime a dozen.

I think if you get fired, when this guy tries to bad rap you in your music community he will expose himself instead. You just take the position that if somebody wishes to express their opinions about your bass lines your always fully open to that. Which most of the time you should be anyway, as JimmyM mentioned.

So you can either draw the line in the sand with a rigid approach and make it a stand off, or have a little fun with a situation like that which is what I would probably do, just because I'm that guy sometimes. Either way, life is too short to play with people like your guitarist. He might just need a little training, though. Good luck.
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What I have failed to mention is that our lead vocalist quit earlier and this week our drummer walked out saying he wanted more freedom to make his own decisions about how to play..so it isn’t just me.
I am the easiest to get along with. I just take it for the team.
 
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#113
Sorry if this has been said but I can't read the whole thread but, did you say your band is not yet working? Tell him nicely to back off. If that doesn't work talk to the rest of the band about dumping him.

If none of that works we could whack him for you, if you want.
 
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#115
gkella said:
I am in the midst of starting up a band.
Having issues with my guitarist.
He is very rigid and demands I play very simple bass lines.
To the point, I am getting very frustrated.
If I try to add some colour by playing walk up notes to the root, he has a fit.
He demands I just pound the root note.
We are all in our 50’s and 60’s and this is more of a hobby band, with hopes Of playing play local pubs, picnics, etc when get enough songs together.
I discussed this with my bass teacher and his opinion was..
If you are paying me,
I will play it the way you wish.
If not, then, I will play it the way I think it should be.
He also commented that this attitude is common with guitar players.
My thoughts are...
I am bored pounding the root note, it’s not challenging me.
I want the chance to add some colour.
I am not trying play over everyone and be the star.
Any thoughts..
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I didnt read every responses in this thread, but ive had to deal with the same issue. One time the lead guitarist got pissed at me for not playing what he thought would be better when everyone else said to let me play what I want haha.

Anyway, your teacher is right. Its a hobby band so Im assuming your doing covers, rehearsing or free, and don't expect to get paid right away. For your time and skill to be used for free, do what you want. Unfortunately there are guitarist like that and feel that they need to control everything (ie: drums only play basic rock beat, bass only plays quarter notes and guitarist gets to do what ever he/she wants). If he was paying you for rehearsals and guaranteed pay per gig, sure, but at that point its not a hobby band and you are a hired musician. I play in one group like that and Im fine with it, because he is paying me for a service and to make that money I play what he wants so I get that return call so I get more money.

On the other hand, if its something your starting from scratch with someone and you all have to commit time for free, everyone should be able to have fun. Plus, at least for me, verbatim covers are not great. There are bands that get hired to do this, but I have never nor will I ever pay to see a band cover a song verbatim. Make the songs your own and be creative. Personally, I didnt spend years studying theory, jazz, and saving for high quality gear just to play simple quarter notes. There is a time where that would be musically appropriate, but I will use my knowledge and instinct to decide when that is. If the guitarist wants a bassist like that, he can either pay you to play what he wants or find a bassist thats willing to play like that.

Basically its one or the other:
1) Pays you to play the way he wants
2) Lets you play what you want
3) You find other musicians to work with that understand that its not all about them and allows room for creative expression.
 
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#116
gkella said:
What I have failed to mention is that our lead vocalist quit earlier and this week our drummer walked out saying he wanted more freedom to make his own decisions about how to play..so it isn’t just me.
I am the easiest to get along with. I just take it for the team.
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Sounds like your band mates have already made the decision for you. You don't have a team. Your vocalist and your drummer quit.

Why not start a band with them?
 
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#119
gkella said:
What I have failed to mention is that our lead vocalist quit earlier and this week our drummer walked out saying he wanted more freedom to make his own decisions about how to play..so it isn’t just me.
I am the easiest to get along with. I just take it for the team.
Click to expand...

I would have done what the drummer did. I have quit so many bands over the years for the same reason. If you stay and allow him to continue his behavior it will never change and you will never be happy. Musicians that act that way have a hard time getting hired and people don't want to work with them.
 
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