6 strings bass - Detune a whole step down... Some notes sound weird

[Mich656]

Hello !

I recently detune my 6 strings bass (a luthier handmade bass in Marseille, France) and put on it new strings with bigger gauge to make tension be there despite the whole step down.

So here is the gauge :
Bb : 40
F : 50
C : 70
G : 90
D : 115
A : 145
It's GHS Boomers Strings
It's a bit big but it fits good, both the sound and the feeling on the neck.

But, has say in the title, i have some weird notes on the neck... It looks that i have to find a different tunning on the strings to move them a bit higher or lower to get the right notes (but a very little bit).

It looks like it's better with a regular gauge strings (like 34 45 65 85 105 130 Fodera nickel set), even it is tune a whole step down... But in this case the strings are too soft for me...

So does anybody near there experienced such things when detunning bass ?
Is there any tips to follow, little things to do to make a basse sound good with this tune ?
Maybe some Gospel bass player have some info about that...? Or other ?

Thank you in advance !
Have a good day,
Michel

 

[shoulderpet]

Hello !

I recently detune my 6 strings bass (a luthier handmade bass in Marseille, France) and put on it new strings with bigger gauge to make tension be there despite the whole step down.

So here is the gauge :
Bb : 40
F : 50
C : 70
G : 90
D : 115
A : 145
It's GHS Boomers Strings
It's a bit big but it fits good, both the sound and the feeling on the neck.

But, has say in the title, i have some weird notes on the neck... It looks that i have to find a different tunning on the strings to move them a bit higher or lower to get the right notes (but a very little bit).

It looks like it's better with a regular gauge strings (like 34 45 65 85 105 130 Fodera nickel set), even it is tune a whole step down... But in this case the strings are too soft for me...

So does anybody near there experienced such things when detunning bass ?
Is there any tips to follow, little things to do to make a basse sound good with this tune ?
Maybe some Gospel bass player have some info about that...? Or other ?

Thank you in advance !
Have a good day,
Michel

I think the issue is that whilst you are compensating for the lost tension by going up in gauge as you go up in gauge the string becomes less flexible and there is some trade off between tension and the flexibility of the string, I suspect that if you went with for example a 135 A you would get better tone

 

[ixlramp]

It's a bit big but it fits good, both the sound and the feeling on the neck.

But, has say in the title, i have some weird notes on the neck... It looks that i have to find a different tunning on the strings to move them a bit higher or lower to get the right notes (but a very little bit).

The post is a little unclear, but what i quoted suggests to me that Mich656 has a problem with intonation, not tone. The quote states the sound is good.
Depends on whether "sound weird" and "sound good" elsewhere refers to pitch or tone.

A .145 at A0 can have good tone. A .135 at A0 is low tension so the tone is not necessarily better.
When i tuned to A0 i changed from .135 to .145 and the tone actually improved due to increased tension.

 

[Lenny JG]

It just sounds like you need to adjust your intonation.

 

[Mich656]

Ok thank you for your view of this situation... Despite the intonation adjustement, some notes ares still sounding bad, and in fact @ixlramp, out of tune (sorry for the unclear message at first place). It was not on the 145 A string, it was - for exemple - the A on the G string (2nd fret of the neck, the G string replace ancient A string) was too low... The intonation was right for this string (settle the middle harmonic and the 12th fret)...
Other exemple : the A on the F string (4th fret of the neck, the f string replace ancient G string), was a bit too high (and intonation was settle right too)
In this two case, in rehersal (pop cover orchestra) , the keyboardist said it wasn't a problem for him, the guitarist said he heard it but it was ok... But the feel for me wasn't good, I began to loose confidence when playing... The feel was very close to this Doppler effect, this feeling out of tune, but not really, like there was other harmonics appears which were not the good one (Sorry for the mystic description of this feeling lol)

I say "Was" because I'm back at a standart tunning, and all issues of wrongness are gone...
I will certainely try it on another 6 strings if I get one, to see the difference...

However, I will be interested by any experience of downtunning a bass a whole step, if any body want to speak here of this experience.

Thank you
Have a good day !

 

[ixlramp]

Detuning by 2 semitones, or the instrument, are not the cause of the problem. It is either the strings or your mistake in setting intonation. So you should not give up on detuning.
You could try a different brand/type of string, and i encourage you to learn more about intonation and better techniques to set it.

I once had a .145 tuned to A that was extremely well intonated up to fret 23, and all smaller gauges are capable of being well intonated.

The intonation was right for this string (settle the middle harmonic and the 12th fret)

Intonating using the 2nd harmonic is inaccurate if done by ear.
Use a cable tuner (not a clip-on tuner), tune the open note, then check the pitch of fret 12 with the tuner, and adjust.
Or, even better, using the tuner, check several frets spaced along the neck, from fret 1 up to the highest played fret, and adjust as best you can to minimise and balance the errors.

The feel was very close to this Doppler effect, this feeling out of tune, but not really, like there was other harmonics appears which were not the good one

That sounds like a description of 'inharmonicity', which has nothing to do with intonation. If the problem is inharmonicity, a different string brand/type might fix that, or maybe you had defective strings.

 

[Mich656]

@ixlramp thank you for the advices, I will try that