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6550 Tubes for Ampeg SVT

Geez, with all these numbers and measurements floating around here, I’m just glad that “loud as begeezuz” works for me….:D

All the SVTs I run into is the occasional backline rig. So far, except for varying degrees of hum that wasn’t show-stopping nor in my REDDI DI line to FOH, they all seemed to work quite decently enough. And fun to come across after not owning one for 3 years now….
Loudness level wise there was probably hardly any difference audible. Very likely there will be no audible difference in either direction.
Probably no difference if the amp does push only 270 Watt vers. 300 Watts, neither for 330 Watts vers 300 Watts.
Even the difference of 330 Watts vers 270 Watts was just equal to smallish 0.87 dB. That's way too small of a number to be really noticeable
 
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You're may be right but I still wouldn't do it.
At some content, it may happen that you'll do it without notice.

Regarding bias calibration and ohm mismatching.
Its not uncommon for bias calibration to have a cabinet of matching impedance connected to the amplifier.
For the SVT most common is 4 Ohm usage of the amplifier.
So 4 Ohm cabinet shall be fine for impedance matching.
But, does the 4 Ohm cab really match to the 4 Ohm output?
No, not exactly, at least not in idle mode of the amplifier.

In idle mode when no signal is amplified, the cabinets DC resistance is (almost always) lower than its nominal Z.
Its not that uncommon that Re of the voice coil may be only equal to 2/3 in magnitude (or even less) versus nominal Z.

So if a 4 Ohm cab was connected, as long as the amplifier stays in idle mode (no signal amplified) the loaded impedance is likely more close to ~2.7 Ohm (or even less) which reflects the loudspeaker DC resistance.

For the bias calibration this mismatch does not hurt nothing at all.
The mismatch doesn't hurt anything, and it also makes no difference for the bias calibration. It doesn't make no difference if pure resistive 4 Ohm was connected, or something lower than that such as ~2.7 Ohm resistive which in real practice might be the 4 Ohm cabinets DC impedance.
 
Must be "Magnavox" late 70's, isn't it?
Probably just the same as mine :)

Yup, I never dated them but the filter cap in one was marked 1976 and the other one was marked 1977 when I changed them. I've had others but have had these two for a little over twenty years. I bought my first one, used, in 1975. It was an early blueline with 6550's, it had the hardwired speaker cable with the four prong speaker jack and came with the matching cab.
 
Loudness level wise there was probably hardly any difference audible. Very likely there will be no audible difference in either direction.
Probably no difference if the amp does push only 270 Watt vers. 300 Watts, neither for 330 Watts vers 300 Watts.
Even the difference of 330 Watts vers 270 Watts was just equal to smallish 0.87 dB. That's way too small of a number to be really noticeable


I think you'd only notice a difference with the low notes, like low G and below either way as they need so much more power than higher notes.
 
At some content, it may happen that you'll do it without notice.

Regarding bias calibration and ohm mismatching.
Its not uncommon for bias calibration to have a cabinet of matching impedance connected to the amplifier.
For the SVT most common is 4 Ohm usage of the amplifier.
So 4 Ohm cabinet shall be fine for impedance matching.
But, does the 4 Ohm cab really match to the 4 Ohm output?
No, not exactly, at least not in idle mode of the amplifier.

In idle mode when no signal is amplified, the cabinets DC resistance is (almost always) lower than its nominal Z.
Its not that uncommon that Re of the voice coil may be only equal to 2/3 in magnitude (or even less) versus nominal Z.

So if a 4 Ohm cab was connected, as long as the amplifier stays in idle mode (no signal amplified) the loaded impedance is likely more close to ~2.7 Ohm (or even less) which reflects the loudspeaker DC resistance.

For the bias calibration this mismatch does not hurt nothing at all.
The mismatch doesn't hurt anything, and it also makes no difference for the bias calibration. It doesn't make no difference if pure resistive 4 Ohm was connected, or something lower than that such as ~2.7 Ohm resistive which in real practice might be the 4 Ohm cabinets DC impedance.


I don't think the impedance load has anything to do with setting the bias, I just won't do it without a load because I am very careful in my old age.
I've always noticed that the DC coil resistance of a voice coil is about 75% of the rated impedance which of course goes all over the place depending on frequency. (They tell me that :laugh:), so if I've got a 6 ohm cab most likely it's an 8 ohm cab, 3 ohms for 4 etc. Hey, you know anything about Dieter Dierks studio in Stommeln?
 
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I think you'd only notice a difference with the low notes, like low G and below either way as they need so much more power than higher notes.
You are right, the low notes need much more power than the higher ones.
If the amplifier starts to saturate, the lower notes saturate at first, the higher notes go behind.

And I'm sorry cause I did forget to mention, and because, really indeed, that's the reason why I did measure the output power at 100Hz rather than 1kHz which is more common and often referred as to be standard.
Of course I do know that besides 1kHz also 400Hz is increasingly common. And I think 400Hz is way more practical cause there is rarely lots of power stored at 1kHz at audio signals, probably at least at a bass guitar and instruments such as a kickdrum.
 
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Mine are stock late 70's heads. I don't take shortcuts, prevents stupid mistakes. No offense intended. :laugh:

View attachment 5013934

Mistakes get made regardless of them being stupid or not.

For example, I just wasted an hour troubleshooting an amp with an odd volume issue. I checked that the tubes were working properly, each stage was operating correctly, but failed to notice that an ECC81 had been substituted in place of an ECC83 by the user in a "tube rolling" exercise because the print was small and it was the same brand and graphics as the stock tube and looked identical. My fault, but is was a reasonable mistake and a reasonable "waste of time".

At some content, it may happen that you'll do it without notice.

Regarding bias calibration and ohm mismatching.
Its not uncommon for bias calibration to have a cabinet of matching impedance connected to the amplifier.
For the SVT most common is 4 Ohm usage of the amplifier.
So 4 Ohm cabinet shall be fine for impedance matching.
But, does the 4 Ohm cab really match to the 4 Ohm output?
No, not exactly, at least not in idle mode of the amplifier.

In idle mode when no signal is amplified, the cabinets DC resistance is (almost always) lower than its nominal Z.
Its not that uncommon that Re of the voice coil may be only equal to 2/3 in magnitude (or even less) versus nominal Z.

So if a 4 Ohm cab was connected, as long as the amplifier stays in idle mode (no signal amplified) the loaded impedance is likely more close to ~2.7 Ohm (or even less) which reflects the loudspeaker DC resistance.

For the bias calibration this mismatch does not hurt nothing at all.
The mismatch doesn't hurt anything, and it also makes no difference for the bias calibration. It doesn't make no difference if pure resistive 4 Ohm was connected, or something lower than that such as ~2.7 Ohm resistive which in real practice might be the 4 Ohm cabinets DC impedance.

In reality it makes no difference if there is a load connected or not when setting bias, provided there is no signal present. Damage to output trasformers occurs when there are flyback voltages generated from signals in the output stage.
 
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IMHO, it's not a best practice to bias a tube amp with either an open circuit or shorted output.

Use a speaker or dummy load. It may only reduce risk slightly, but the effort to properly terminate the amp is small, and damage, although unlikely, can be catastrophic.

My tube amps have a mix of shorting and non-shorting outputs. I occasionally make a patching mistake when changing from one amp to another. For example, I have forgot to plug in a cab and also occasionally hooked the output of two amps together. I have gotten in the practice of playing at low volume when I first turn the amp on, to confirm everything is working properly. If there is no sound, or the sound is distorted, I put the amp in standby double check how the output is patched.

So far I have not had a major melt down, but that does not make it right to recommend for people run their tube amps without a proper loud. IMHO, do you best to show the amp the expected load at all times.
 
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IMHO, it's not a best practice to bias a tube amp with either an open circuit or shorted output.

Use a speaker or dummy load. It may only reduce risk slightly, but the effort to properly terminate the amp is small, and damage, although unlikely, can be catastrophic.
A dummy load or a cab of matching impedance may help to salve conscience, yet not mandatory necessary with vintage SVT's.
To the contrary, once power amp input was muted and its output shortened, then this "mode of operation" might be the savest mode of operation as can be for the amplifier. And was probably more save than playing the amp on stage or rehearsal with an Ohm matching cab.
Once the input of the power amp was muted, no AC signal was running throughout the amplifier anymore. The shortened output would very effectively suppress any kind of oscillation, better than with a matching impedance loaded.
Inside the amp will be nothing but "dead silence". Except for the DC bias current still flowing throughout the tubes.

Its not my aim to suggest you folks for calibration procedure with shortened output terminals or even "no load", yet I think it may be beneficial at some content to tell something about tube amps and the way how these really work.
Furthermore not every tube amp is equal. Some do shorten the output automatically when nothing was plugged in, while others leave the output terminals at "open load".
Thus its way to critical to "really suggest" this method. Sometimes generic folks read words anyway "half way" at best.
I'd hate it to feel responsible for a damaged amplifier cause a user might have tried a calibration procedure with nothing plugged in, cause terminals may have, with his amplifier and installed output jack, be "open" instead of "shorten".
 
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A dummy load or a cab of matching impedance may help to salve conscience, yet not mandatory necessary with vintage SVT's.
To the contrary, once power amp input was muted and its output shortened, then this "mode of operation" might be the savest mode of operation as can be for the amplifier. And was probably more save than playing the amp on stage or rehearsal with an Ohm matching cab.
Once the input of the power amp was muted, no AC signal was running throughout the amplifier anymore. The shortened output would very effectively suppress any kind of oscillation, better than with a matching impedance loaded.
Inside the amp will be nothing but "dead silence". Except for the DC bias current still flowing throughout the tubes.

Its not my aim to suggest you folks for calibration procedure with shortened output terminals or even "no load", yet I think it may be beneficial at some content to tell something about tube amps and the way how these really work.
Furthermore not every tube amp is equal. Some do shorten the output automatically when nothing was plugged in, while others leave the output terminals at "open load".
Thus its way to critical to "really suggest" this method. Sometimes generic folks read words anyway "half way" at best.

It's one thing to bias an amp with a shorted output as an engineer who understands the amp's circuits and how they work. It's entirely a different thing to suggest it's a good practice for lay people who don't know jack about electronics.
 
It's one thing to bias an amp with a shorted output as an engineer who understands the amp's circuits and how they work. It's entirely a different thing to suggest it's a good practice for lay people who don't know jack about electronics.
Right Sir!
When I tried to tell that its even possible without something connect, I had in first instance engineers such as you in my mind to whom I'm talking about.
You are totally right, its way to critical to tell those rather "uncommon" things cause not everybody is an engineer.

Either way, I want to share a couple of pics with you, taken from an LT-Spice 6x6550 amplifier, ~300 Watts
(HT plate voltage for modelling was set to 580V)

400Hz sinusoidal waveform at 4 Ohm
4 Ohm full output
300 Watts
upload_2023-3-29_3-8-14.png


voltage swing at primary
upload_2023-3-29_3-10-56.png


RMS current draw at plate of 6550 tube
~185mA rms
upload_2023-3-29_3-13-14.png



400Hz signal ~8dB Crest at 4 Ohm
4 Ohm full output
115 Watts
upload_2023-3-29_3-17-33.png


voltage swing at primary
upload_2023-3-29_3-18-26.png


RMS current draw at plate of 6550 tube
~120mA rms
upload_2023-3-29_3-19-46.png



400Hz signal ~8dB Crest at 1 Ohm
1 Ohm full output
40 Watts rms
upload_2023-3-29_3-22-31.png


voltage swing at primary
upload_2023-3-29_3-23-52.png


RMS current draw at plate of 6550 tube
upload_2023-3-29_3-38-57.png




400Hz signal ~8dB Crest at 0.01 Ohm
0.01 Ohm full output
0.44 Watts
upload_2023-3-29_3-43-33.png


voltage swing at primary
upload_2023-3-29_3-44-57.png


RMS current draw at plate of 6550 tube
~148mA rms
upload_2023-3-29_3-46-28.png



It makes not much sense to reduce load furthermore cause some resistive load that was caused by wires and connectors will anyway remain in real practice.
In total the outcome is no surprise cause any tube amps can at least roughly considered as to be a current source.

Last but not least here you are with the counterpart which means open connectors, no load.

400Hz signal ~8dB Crest at open load
No number for power predictable anymore cause load is "open"
upload_2023-3-29_3-53-50.png


voltage swing at primary
upload_2023-3-29_3-54-42.png


RMS current draw at plate of 6550 tube
~17mA rms
upload_2023-3-29_4-9-15.png
 
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Some notes to THD and bandwidth limits.

THD is often referred as to be an appropriate number that tells something about the amount of signal saturation/clipping.

Here you are again with a plot that I already posted above
output power 300 Watts
upload_2023-3-29_17-31-26.png


At the top edge of the signal it can be obtained that the signal is already at the edge of clipping, the signal's rounded shape at the top also tells that there will be already some amount of harmonic distortion produced.

An FFT analysis and (and doing the THD math by hand) predicts the THD number to be equal to ~5.6% for the given signal and its 300 Watts of power.
Besides the slightly distorted top edge shape that already does generate harmonic distortion there are other artifacts as well that does contribute to the THD.
Once you look carefully from the signals top to its bottom end you may observe signal distortion that is even present in the middle area of the total voltage swing.
These obtainable artifacts are not uncommon for "high power" amplifiers. Although a strong negative global feedback may help to keep those artifacts small, jet they do happen (almost always, and more or less) with high power tube amplifiers.
Another option was to just reduce output power, or increase bias current, just to reduce those artifacts.
At the other hand side, although those artifacts very likely (and almost always) are probably unwanted with HiFi amplifiers, a musical instrument amplifier may even benefit from this artifact cause it may help to add some musical sounding texture, a more rich sounding timbre at higher levels respectively at overload range. May be similar like it was for a loudspeaker that was designed to add "musical harmonics" and an enriched timbre/texture at overload range.

IMO/IME the meaning as a summary is, for musical instrument amplifiers its not valid to draw any conclusions about the amount of signal saturation/(clipping) from provided/measured THD numbers.
Not every amplifier is equal, some may produce more THD in this regard while other ones may do less.
At least for the LT-spice 6x6550 amplifier it was not a big deal (nothing at all) to reduce THD down to about ~2..3% at ~300 Watts rather than ~5.6% THD at just the same output power.


upload_2023-3-29_18-53-9.png



40Hz output power ~150 Watts (lower bandwidth limit -3dB)
THD ~8%
upload_2023-3-29_19-38-50.png



In this plot there is additional artifacts noticeable, and these are caused by the primary inductance.
For the OT Spice model I have chosen 10H for the primary. It was possible to enlarge lower bandwidth, yet I leave it as is.
I have to mention that this artifact that does increase THD is caused by pure inductance only. No saturation of transformer iron materials involved in this model.
Yet the artifact in the modelling looks already very close to the artifacts that can be observed with real amplifiers, respectively with real OT in real practice.
At some content this artifact is already present even at 100Hz, and likewise observable with the SVT in real practice at 100Hz.
My guessing is about ~10% of THD at lower bandwidth once there was additionally saturation of iron materials in the spice modeling involved.
Well, for future use of this spice model I might implement an OT spice model that also gives respect to iron saturation in regards of "low bandwidth limit" THD.

Although this artifact may (almost always) be not wanted with HiFi amplifiers, at some content it may contribute some musical sounding benefit to MI amplifiers.
I think, whenever there is any attempt to evaluate an MI amplifier with principles that may better and preferably apply to HiFi amplifiers, then (IMO) there is a good bet that something turns wrong when drawing conclusions.
 
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