Which one sounds better in a mix? Is the 70s jazz too prominent? Is the 60s too muddy?
Ime the 60s needs some eqing and hard attack to pop through.
Ime the 60s needs some eqing and hard attack to pop through.
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70s jazz vs 60s jazz for cutting through the mix
- Thread starter slapDoctor
- Start date
I don't want to cut through the mix. I want to be in it. So: 60's for me.
If you blend the bridge pickup in with the neck pickup, as quite a lot of JB players tend to do, the difference between the 60s and 70s spacings becomes pretty subtle.
I’ve used both spacings for many years and I can’t say I hear a huge, night-and-day difference. The bridge pickup has just a little more bite with the 70s spacing, that’s all. It’s not very noticeable with the neck pickup favored or with both pickups at full. With the bridge pickup favored it’s more noticeable but we’re still not talking about an Earth-shattering change.
I’ve used both spacings for many years and I can’t say I hear a huge, night-and-day difference. The bridge pickup has just a little more bite with the 70s spacing, that’s all. It’s not very noticeable with the neck pickup favored or with both pickups at full. With the bridge pickup favored it’s more noticeable but we’re still not talking about an Earth-shattering change.
Here you have Marcus Miller and his Seventies Jazz playing with Miles Davis and Darryl Jones and his 1966 Jazz playing with Miles Davis. I should add that Miller’s bass is active and Jones’ bass is passive. How do you all think each bassist sounds in the mix?
In my experience, the year in which a bass was built has no bearing on whether or not it's going to cut thru the mix, sit in the mix, or blend in the mix like a light, fluffy, meringue. I've had 60's & 70's jazz basses that have done all of those. (Well, perhaps not the meringue thing. More like a frappuccino. However, if I wanted an extra shot of espresso in that, I'd probably choose a 70's jazz bass. 
. And now I'm hungry. Which P bass tastes more like a scone?)
. And now I'm hungry. Which P bass tastes more like a scone?)
I believe where you sit in the mix largely depends on the mixmaster. Every time I’ve been in a recording studio, my bass does not sound the same in the final product as it did in the headphones when it was being recorded.
As for a live mix, all I’ve ever heard was what it sounded like in the monitor, or from behind the mains if I didn’t rate a monitor, so how it sounds to those listening is (again) in the hands of the mixmaster.
As for a live mix, all I’ve ever heard was what it sounded like in the monitor, or from behind the mains if I didn’t rate a monitor, so how it sounds to those listening is (again) in the hands of the mixmaster.
I pretty agree that a 70s Jazz Bass cuts more through the mix when you attack it compared to a 60s Jazz Bass, personally. It's not better or worse, it's a matter of use case
This was a '66 Jazz that my brother-in-law let me do a few videos with before he flipped it. I remember really having to do some extreme EQing to get it to cut through at all. It was definitely the "bass-iest" Jazz Bass I've ever played.
FullumMusic
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The only thing that makes a bass "cut through the mix" is a good arrangement and the mix engineer.
"But the mids cut through the mix!"
No they don't. They only cut through the mix if there's space in the mids. Everyone wants to cut through the mix. If everyone in the band is boosting their mids trying to cut through the mix, nobody will cut through the mix. It'll simultaneously be too loud and nobody will be able to hear anything.
Marcus is incredibly present in his mixes and he's got those mids scooped all the way out. The songs are composed and arranged so all the parts and tones of all the instruments fit together, so that the lows and highs of his bass aren't being stepped on by other instruments in the mix.
Reggae bass is heavy on the low-end. Nobody will tell you that they can't hear the bass in reggae mixes.
I make electronic dance tracks with synth sub bass that's just a sine wave. Sine waves are all fundamental, no harmonics, ergo, no mids. The low bass & subs are the biggest parts of the mix.
A proper arrangement where each instrument is playing in a sonic space, where anything playing in the same register has contrasting timbral qualities, will allow all instruments to be heard in a mix. And at the end of the day, the mix engineer will dictate what "cuts through the mix" because they control the faders. Don't matter how much you boost your mids, the fader on the bass's channel will override that.
Hearing "this bass/piece of gear cuts through the mix" makes me cringe. It's amazing marketing that people eat up. But, it's not true, because every mix is different and needs different things from different instruments. Ain't no such thing as an inherent "cut through the mix" quality.
To emphasize my point: Think of all the songs ever where you can hear the bass well in the mix, and realize how many different basses with different tonal characteristics were used. As a mix engineer i could make either a 60s or 70s Jazz bass cut through or lost in the mix.
$0.02
"But the mids cut through the mix!"
No they don't. They only cut through the mix if there's space in the mids. Everyone wants to cut through the mix. If everyone in the band is boosting their mids trying to cut through the mix, nobody will cut through the mix. It'll simultaneously be too loud and nobody will be able to hear anything.
Marcus is incredibly present in his mixes and he's got those mids scooped all the way out. The songs are composed and arranged so all the parts and tones of all the instruments fit together, so that the lows and highs of his bass aren't being stepped on by other instruments in the mix.
Reggae bass is heavy on the low-end. Nobody will tell you that they can't hear the bass in reggae mixes.
I make electronic dance tracks with synth sub bass that's just a sine wave. Sine waves are all fundamental, no harmonics, ergo, no mids. The low bass & subs are the biggest parts of the mix.
A proper arrangement where each instrument is playing in a sonic space, where anything playing in the same register has contrasting timbral qualities, will allow all instruments to be heard in a mix. And at the end of the day, the mix engineer will dictate what "cuts through the mix" because they control the faders. Don't matter how much you boost your mids, the fader on the bass's channel will override that.
Hearing "this bass/piece of gear cuts through the mix" makes me cringe. It's amazing marketing that people eat up. But, it's not true, because every mix is different and needs different things from different instruments. Ain't no such thing as an inherent "cut through the mix" quality.
To emphasize my point: Think of all the songs ever where you can hear the bass well in the mix, and realize how many different basses with different tonal characteristics were used. As a mix engineer i could make either a 60s or 70s Jazz bass cut through or lost in the mix.
$0.02
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I've rarely kept many J-Basses around for long, but of the few keepers I've had I highly prefer 70s spacing for a fretted bass and moderately prefer 60s spacing for fretless. I'm never someone who will solo a bridge pickup on a J, so its all about the difference when mixing pickups for me. I find there is an extra bit of bite and tightness with both pickups on (and usually one rolled down slightly) with the 70s spacing that adds to a percussive attack that I usually want to hear, while I've had a number of 60s-spacing Js that seemed flat or congested by comparison and got lost in mixes. There is an extra warmth to a 60s spacing that seems to work really nice with fretless where I don't necessarily want that pokey attack like I often do on a fretted bass.
All this.
"Cutting through the mix" only seems like an issue if you've got dense arrangements, e.g. two distorted guitars pounding out power chords.
Fortunately most music is more sophisticated than that.
I (naively perhaps) believe where a bass winds up in the mix starts and largely depends on the player.
It all depends. My 70's single coil Jazz with Labella flatwounds sits in a mix as well as any P, with everything dimed--no scoop--the mids are just right. My 60's style with Hum-cancelling pu's...different--does the disappearing act a bit more, especially if I dime the pu's...
But yeah, I wanna be part of the mix, not needing to "cut through" which implies a problem, somewhere......
All basses can cut through a mix. Use your midrange in the opposite manner that someone on a forum said. Smily EQ is why a bass doesn’t stand out.
Thanks for the enlightening response. I appreciate the perspective change from "cutting thru the mix" to "supporting the overall mix". The shows i play are very low budget, wall of sound guitarist type stuff. It is very hard to hear any definition to be honest, unless it's a high register guitar solo.
How do you go about distributing the sonic space to make the mix better overall? Let's say in a grunge setting where there's lots of guitarists with their distortion pedals piercing. How do you go about supporting that mix? Providing solid fundamental? When do you need to cut through the mix as oppossed to supporting?
Best,
Mike
It sounds like marcus cuts through a little more and Darryl Jones is a little more fundamental/mud. But they're both complementing each other which is interesting.
Side note, robot 415 is incredibly trippy.
Favor the neck pickup to cut through.
I believe a 70s jazz stands out more if you slap and pop
Also...Get a Precision bass
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