$75-100 gigs in 2023

[poppunk]

Where are you going to pull these people from? Bar attendance has been plummeting in many markets for years. Some blame the craft-beer industry for that, others believe that younger people just don't see the value in dropping money on suds in bars that still have the same decor they put up in 1979, lately.

Most of the newer drinking establishments I see don't have bands at all. They curate their music carefully, the beers and food are all upscale and they have no desire to cater to a crowd that could potentially stumble out drunk at 2am yelling lyrics to a GnR song...

We don't have issues with this where I live (Denver metro). You can't swing a dead cat without hitting a brewery and the places are packed at peak hours. We have no issues selling at least a hundred tickets (not to our family/friends) if not hundreds for tribute bands for carefully selected shows. One of my drummers is in a GnR tribute and it packs houses. We have a lot of luck with bands that were popular in the last 20 years. We have plenty of 25-35 aged people (heavily women) come to see bands because we picked the right bands. We get high school and middle school kids who come and have a blast.

Are you guys just doing it wrong in Canada?

 

[brianrost]

For those who are getting more than $100 a man on a regular basis, do these gigs charge a cover? I paid exactly one gig that charged a cover this year.

There’s no way that bars with a maximum capacity of less than 100 people can pay serious money without a cover, but a cover usually reduces attendance. Tip jars sometimes make up the difference between what the bar actually pays and how much we’d like to get.

One local bar I’ve been playing at for 25 years in various bands has music 7 nights a week, with early/late shows on Saturday and Sunday. Before the real estate crash in 2008, they paid $200 and sometimes kicked in more when it was a good night, but now it’s only $100. The bar staff works the tip jar by moving through the crowd once every set, though. On good nights there, we can get $400 or more in tips. I was there two weekends ago and we had a slow night, only $200 in the tip jar so went home with $75 each instead of $125. We see a good number of $20 bills in the tip jar. Would those people be willing to pay a $20 cover?

 

[WI Short Scaler]

Now consider other hobbies, where they spend waaaay more than $2.35 per hour, and put tons more hours into it, and literally pay to participate in the activities.

Try anything having to do with custom or race cars for instance...

For those who see playing/gigging as a job, just stay home and leave the gigs to those of us who know it's a hobby and enjoy it.

Or buying a boat or camper, both popular around here.

So Anyway, I usually get +$100 a gig. I figured out early on that I usually play for free and get paid to move equipment. I couldn't hire someone to move my gear to and from a gig for that $100. I know of very few bands in my area that operate on that level.

That's how we look at it and comment on it often. Setup and gear schlepping costs $$, music and fun is free.

 

[lordradish]

Up here in Vermont, unless it's some special event, I'm lucky if I get 75-100 per.

 

[JazznFunk]

Where are you going to pull these people from? Bar attendance has been plummeting in many markets for years. Some blame the craft-beer industry for that, others believe that younger people just don't see the value in dropping money on suds in bars that still have the same decor they put up in 1979, lately.

Most of the newer drinking establishments I see don't have bands at all. They curate their music carefully, the beers and food are all upscale and they have no desire to cater to a crowd that could potentially stumble out drunk at 2am yelling lyrics to a GnR song...

I don't play bar gigs anymore for the exact reason you mentioned - bar gigs don't exist where I am anymore, with a few 'dive bar' exceptions which stay busy because tourists see them as a 'novelty' - in a town dominated by microbreweries with music venues and stages. Honestly, I'm cool with that. The breweries have always paid better, promoted better, and treated musicians better than any 'bar' ever did in my experience, with maybe a few exceptions. That started way back in 2004 or so, when our microbrewing scene really started to take off.

Where I am, the newer 'drinking establishments' do have music, but they aren't necessarily open and hosting music till 2am. Doesn't matter if it's 9pm or 2am: if people are going to get drunk, they're going to get drunk. Most of the 'bars' which have a good rapport in terms of pay, etc. with musicians are actually in nice hotels. It works out well.

And this logic wasn't specific to 'bar gigs' - it's specific to ANY gig at any type of venue which hosts music. The venue must promote as much as the band does. Period.

 

[frankie5string]

Are you guys just doing it wrong in Canada?

Not quite. I'm in two tribute bands at the moment that do fill houses, but we're not playing pubs/bars. We're playing much larger, more controlled venues where there are ticket sales and rights management.

I'm talking about the tiny hole-in-the-wall places filled with drunken "adults" pissing the night away to a band "on stage" or wherever the band sets up. Some of those places have actually changed to become little family restaurants, now. Most of the people we play to are 25-65 but it depends on the venue and the purpose of the evening. I love playing those breweries, but all of those have been private parties with much better behaved people.

 

[steveinohio]

I’ll play for free. I don’t care. Just make sure the crowd is good. As long as I’m into it money doesn’t matter. I’m 45. I want to keep playing as much as I can before I can’t.

 

[Marko 1]

I'm also very fortunate that I'm still interested in music and continue to play in my Golden Years.

Retired here, as well- the band (and related gear as I'm a gearhead) is an ideal retirement hobby/activity for me.

At 66, I hope to enjoy it as long as you have so far.

 

[JazznFunk]

I'm talking about the tiny hole-in-the-wall places filled with drunken "adults" pissing the night away to a band "on stage" or wherever the band sets up. Some of those places have actually changed to become little family restaurants, now. Most of the people we play to are 25-65 but it depends on the venue and the purpose of the evening. I love playing those breweries, but all of those have been private parties with much better behaved people.

Around here, the breweries are full-on music venues in and of themselves, not hole in the wall places with adults pissing the night away. They are destinations - people bring their families, and there are often food trucks, etc., and several of them get pretty big name bookings. The breweries and 'bars' have supplanted the traditional notion of what a 'bar gig' is - for my area at least. So maybe terminology about what is and is not a 'bar' is part of the problem with the messaging about what is/is not fair in terms of pay. What one person considers a 'bar gig' is not always a 'bar gig' depending on your local scene/environment, I would posit.

 

[poppunk]

For those who are getting more than $100 a man on a regular basis, do these gigs charge a cover? I paid exactly one gig that charged a cover this year.

I used to play shows where you didn't pay to get it in. Local punk shows where we had a generator and were in some parking lot in the middle of nowhere.

People play $20-$30 where I live to see live music. We always play shows that charge to see bands. The worst situations I've been asked to do are pre-sales and we turn that down, it's just the venue putting all the work on the bands. The venues make money by selling alcohol and food too. We sometimes take a guarantee and we sometimes take a cut of the door.

The weirdest thing I've done recently is a live karaoke thing where people pay up front to come sing with the band. We still know what we're getting paid and it still ends up paying well.

I'm assuming most of the "bar gig" situations mentioned here are where bands are background music for a bar playing a pretty common setlist from 60-80s rock. This makes sense if you live in a less populated area, but it seems like there's a lot better opportunities if you live somewhere where there are a lot of people.

 

[poppunk]

The venue must promote as much as the band does. Period.

The people I play with have no trouble giving the venues trouble over this. If they continue to not put effort into promotion, we won't play there. We do our part, they should do their part.

 

[backin82]

In the OKC area, a really good contact and negotiation can get $100-150 per bar gig, but that's the higher end places with good relationships. Events will get anywhere from $300-1,000 per person depending on the event and band size.

We quit doing the gigs that paid less than $100/person. Not worth our time.

 

[pb9717]

I’m 61. Been playing bars and club dates since the late 70’s. (First gig was 79’) Made $100 per man in the early 80’s playing clubs. Went to original hair band 82-86’. Made zero per gig. 91’- 2008, Made $425 per, doing weddings ( I was the bass and P.A. Guy, extra pay). Left weddings , went back to clubs. Had an incredible gig Playing with Arlene’s World Famous RnR Karaoke Band in NYC for about 18 months. Made $200 per on that playing bars, but they pulled in a great crowd. Back to cover bands 2010 to 2018, back to $100 per man.

Moved to Cincy area in 2020. ….
Another cover band, $100 per gig again before beer, gas, etc. THEN…in 2023 I won a gig with a high end 80’s band. Big Show. Multimedia, Smoke Machines, moving lights, costumes, in-ears, merch, chachki’s….always a Hundred to several hundred people at every show. Thousands at festivals ( For a cover band!! Insane) They make $100-$400 in T-shirt sales….its crazy. 5000 followers on facebook. Now I’m making a % of total gross. Band gets well over $1500 per, and often 2, or 3x that much. Even more for Corp, and Holiday Parties. Finally at this advanced age I’m making great money per gig. And they're sweet guys who can really play. But the bulk of the cats around here playing, aren’t making more than that same $100 I was making in 81’…If you wanna make money, put on the Tux, and play privates. Or be fortunate, and skilled enough to get a high paying gig, which are few and far between.

A lot of the cats I know back in the NYC area are doing tribute stuff. One guy is the lead singer in a Zep Tribute. But its not just a tribute, its a re-enactment band. Costumes, wigs, etc. They fill theatre’s. Making $10K plus per. Another guy is in “The wizards of winter”, a Tribute to the “Trans Siberian Orchestra” ( you believe that sh$#?)and he does 50+ gigs from Nov1 thru Jan 1, makes BANK. (F&k3r still owes me $400 buck for a gahd dam 7 string I fronted him the money for at guitar center for that gig…..but I digress) Another drummer buddy is in Springsteen tribute, he’s playing theatres to 2000 people plus per gig. That band also makes $10K plus per gig. Another is in “Yes” tribute and they’re also playing theatres. ( They’re actually dead on with their renditions…its crazy) They TOUR……its unreal.

So, if you wanna play…..locally……to a small crowd……in a bar……then you have to expect to make that same $100. The draw numbers usually don’t allow for any pay higher than that. At least thats what the club owners say.

 

[richntiff]

We don't have issues with this where I live (Denver metro). You can't swing a dead cat without hitting a brewery and the places are packed at peak hours. We have no issues selling at least a hundred tickets (not to our family/friends) if not hundreds for tribute bands for carefully selected shows. One of my drummers is in a GnR tribute and it packs houses. We have a lot of luck with bands that were popular in the last 20 years. We have plenty of 25-35 aged people (heavily women) come to see bands because we picked the right bands. We get high school and middle school kids who come and have a blast.

Are you guys just doing it wrong in Canada?

It's not a Canada thing - it's that about 99.9% of musicians everywhere just sit and whine because the music and format that they want to play isn't any kind of a draw anymore. There are formulas that work very well - the one you are in, is a great example. I'd LOVE to play in that band - I'm trying to form that band in my area right now. Do you think I can find people that understand that if you bust out a bunch of 90's-2000's rock/pop/pop punk/boy band/pop princess, etc and market it to breweries, distilleries, small fests, etc. that it will go over VERY well? No, I can't. Everyone wants to start a classic rock and blues band with some country thrown in to really mix things up. Or, they want to play the Only Good Music Ever. You know, that 80's hair metal, because everyone wants to hear some Y&T.

I'm pulling my hair out here.....

 

[WI Short Scaler]

Retired here, as well- the band (and related gear as I'm a gearhead) is an ideal retirement hobby/activity for me.

At 66, I hope to enjoy it as long as you have so far.

Retired, the jealousy is strong within me. I hope to be able to say that in the next year or two. Just turned 59 and probably could go now but my work situation is the best it's ever been here and 7 weeks of vacation helps alot too.

 

[u84six]

I’ll play for free. I don’t care. Just make sure the crowd is good. As long as I’m into it money doesn’t matter. I’m 45. I want to keep playing as much as I can before I can’t.

I'm definitely in the same boat. However, I usually get $100+ per gig, which is nice because it pays for gas, dinner, drinks, etc. But I will definitely turn down a gig if I know the crowd is going to suck (i.e. the reputation of the venue itself). For example, a friend asked me to play at a Chinese restaurant that we previously played at where there was only like 10 people and it was a 1 1/2 hour drive. I instantly turned it down. I definitely need an energized audience to enjoy my "hobby" (not to mention that a long drive is hardly worth it)

 

[juancaminos]

I am old and remember when we were getting $15 to $30 per man. In fact when I moved to Arizona from California in 1977 I had a gig on Saturday that paid $35. That $35 was my gas money to move to Phoenix.

Just before the economy took a nose dive, say 2006, we would not play for less than $100 per. And we got a lot of gigs. After that bars were only paying $60 - $80 per. Take it or leave it. We disbanded for the most part aroung 2016 only taking special engagements.

Fast forward to retirement and I now live in a very small town in the mountains of AZ. Gigs are spread out all over the White Mountain area where we get $80 to $120 per person for a four piece. It's not like in the city. At last count there are about 15 bands up here and numerous duo's that will take anything they can get. Venue wise there are maybe 10 good ones in a one hour drive radius. Just two in my town.

So if you want to play, you take what you can get. The competition is nothing compared to the city.

 

[Sam Dingle]

I think it all depends. I play for a living here in Nashville both on the road and here in town. I don't play downtown broadway much but will on occasion. that place during the busy season is great in terms of tips. Not counting my "friends rate" which is basically give me some money for the principle of it and we'll have a good time, I typically dont go out of town for less than 200/250 a show assuming thats a multi show weekend. One offs maybe more for that one show.

Broadway is a little more laid back. People in Nashville literally call them shifts, not gigs lol. You go down there, play for 4 hours, make some $ and go home. Tips can be really good down there depending on the act you play with and the bar. I won't do less than $75 base pay with the concept that I'm pretty sure ill make $5 in tips, and $20 an hour is still better than a minimum wage job. I don't factor in my prep time for the gig where I quickly make charts for the set list, and usually i have at least 80% of them already charted out/learned. If someone sends a setlist of weird B-sides I decline the gig.

Now $75 for a gig yes is low, especially when you count in the fact that the bars down there are easily clearing 6 figures a night on a weekend (no I'm not kidding). But why musicians play down there past the "I'm new and desperate for a gig" people, is you can make a boatload in tips. I know musicians making low 6 figures a year playing down there. on a $100 base pay gig, i've cleared $800 a night many times. I've also done two 4 hour gigs in a night and made less than $300 total.

So to finish this post off with how it started... I think it all depends.

 

[jnewmark]

The private sector has always been where its at for higher paying gigs. I was fortunate to be in an 8 piece band for 20 years, and we played mostly weddings, festivals, corporate events, private holiday parties, etc. Back in the '70's when I started playing in bars, $50 a man was the norm, slowly getting to $100 per man, if the band was popular. It hasn't much changed since then, and anything over a 4 piece, you're lucky to make $70, around my area.

 

[poppunk]

It's not a Canada thing - it's that about 99.9% of musicians everywhere just sit and whine because the music and format that they want to play isn't any kind of a draw anymore. There are formulas that work very well - the one you are in, is a great example. I'd LOVE to play in that band - I'm trying to form that band in my area right now. Do you think I can find people that understand that if you bust out a bunch of 90's-2000's rock/pop/pop punk/boy band/pop princess, etc and market it to breweries, distilleries, small fests, etc. that it will go over VERY well? No, I can't. Everyone wants to start a classic rock and blues band with some country thrown in to really mix things up. Or, they want to play the Only Good Music Ever. You know, that 80's hair metal, because everyone wants to hear some Y&T.

I'm pulling my hair out here.....

Sorry to hear that. I've fully embraced the cheese/fun factor and I'm glad I have. It's so much fun to have a sizeable high energy crowd engaged with you, jumping around, singing so loud you just let them do it sometimes. Hopefully you'll find the right people.

A lot of the "I play classic rock" people could learn a lot from getting outside their time periods/genres. I play guitar in a band that plays a lot of pop stuff from late 90s through early 2000s and I've absolutely gotten my butt kicked trying to learn how to play that stuff. I still struggle with some really simple things; everything about it is just different. It's made me a lot better in a lot of ways.

Just as general advice to those who don't get a draw: if you want to get a draw focus on getting younger women in the door. They heavily bring friends and men. Gay dudes are a pretty good demographic to get as well. They are all awesome audience members.