9 string bass?

[lousybassplayer]

what the hell happened in this thread? I have a couple of points as well

1: You don't need to worry about disrespecting 'Artist X' on an internet forum. He doesn't give a ****, and you know his name, even spell it correctly and capitalize it. He gets paid tons, you don't. You have never even met the guy, why does he deserve respect?

2: You don't have to respect the opinions of others to the point that you no longer can express your own. I like maybe three songs by Jaco/Weather report that I have heard. Donna Lee sounds to me like a duck farting on a 33 1/3 rpm record played to fast and sounds as if I recorded it with a karaoke mic and a boom box. It's my opinion, and I'm ok way with it.

Bottom line is no one deserves my respect, I get to decide who gets it, just like I decide what I like. Honestly people around here need to stop worrying about offending people so much. It's over the top.

3. Miracle whip is good in the right context.

 

[Bryan R. Tyler]

what the hell happened in this thread? I have a couple of points as well

1: You don't need to worry about disrespecting 'Artist X' on an internet forum.

Actually you do at TalkBass- the (literal) number one rule here is "All registered users must address fellow members with the utmost respect at all times"

Al Caldwell is a TalkBass member.

 

[JAUQO III-X]

I agree and feel the same way for the most part, I really don't see the line being crossed in any posts... the 'calling out' of someone for their opinion is coming close to not respecting their opinion though.


What I will add to try to clarify my previous post specific to your reply. A piece of art may have some context but that is irrelevant to whether or not a listener enjoys a piece. It helps define and perhaps sway opinion... but to listen and enjoy a song is truly personal opinion.



Did you experience the process that I went through mentally to come to the conclusion that I did not like that song?

Do you think I'm incapable to respect what I don't like?

Are you saying I am uninterested and close minded because I dislike what you like?

I'm not saying that was your intent, but respect is a fine line that is pushed from both sides.

For the record James I could care less if you liked the song or the music. How you feel about a particular song or music is your choice and that I do respect.


One of musics first goals when coming from a artist is it's intention to touch us and whether the listener likes it or not,in the end it stills comes down to how the listener has interpreted it.


And there is no music in existence that has escaped this.

 

[lousybassplayer]

Actually you do at TalkBass- the (literal) number one rule here is "All registered users must address fellow members with the utmost respect at all times"

Al Caldwell is a TalkBass member.

The rule says address. No one was addressing him, and if they did I think that he would have plenty to say to shut them up anyway. And I don't think he was the bassist in question at the time anyway.

To Mr. Caldwell: You have acheived a dream of mine to become a very talented and successful musician playing the instrument that I also attempt to play. Anyone who says otherwise about you or any other professional musician when posting on this site is lying. Still, if I don't own any recordings by any artist you play with and I am not someone who gets the ERB thing, I hope you are ok with it.

 

[john turner]

you know, as a 7 stringer since 1993 i am glad to read this thread. there was a time, not so long ago, where there wouldn't have been any positive posts in response to the OP's question at all.

folks have really grown in perspective in the past 16 years, that i've seen. and besides, the folks that somehow think they have a right to comment on other people's instrument configuration, i like those guys too. it's always great to know that you can have an impact on someone just by the tool you use.

 

[lousybassplayer]

This kind of harkens to the old Chevy/Ford or Coke/Pepsi debate. I am truly amazed by what a good number of ERB players can accomplish and I truly wish I could do it. As I cannot, a 4 banger works for me. And I will go out on a limb and say that people who bash them have a touch of jealousy in what they say anyway.

 

[john turner]

...and I am not someone who gets the ERB thing

you play 5 strings.

, I hope you are ok with it.

i can't speak for al, but i'm not really ok with that. j/k. seriously, though, it sounds like you use, as your benchmark of whether music is good or not, the number of strings on the bassist's instrument, and that's unfortunate. as you shared with your own example (the jaco one) crappy spazz-jazz fusion can be played on 4s as well as erbs (i like a lot of jaco, but i dislike a lot more, along with donna lee). that's certainly not the extent of what folks are doing with erb's. there are people who are playing 7+ string instruments in every genre of music.

 

[lousybassplayer]

No, not at all. I do own a five string and I rarely need it. I am a pretty bass-ic (hehe) player and I don't play more than I need. I don't own any of his recordings (that I am aware of) since I am kind of particular about what music I like. When I say I don't get the ERB thing I mean I can't see what I would do with it apart from make a fool of myself.

 

[James Hart]

For the record James I could care less if you liked the song or the music. How you feel about a particular song or music is your choice and that I do respect.

Exactly!

Why then would azarias need to qualify his opinion with posting his own recordings and/or be a writer-producer of it?

He stated many time he respects the player... and expressed why he felt as he did.

 

[john turner]

No, not at all. I do own a five string and I rarely need it. I am a pretty bass-ic (hehe) player and I don't play more than I need. I don't own any of his recordings (that I am aware of) since I am kind of particular about what music I like. When I say I don't get the ERB thing I mean I can't see what I would do with it apart from make a fool of myself.

gotcha.

 

[john turner]

Why then would azarias need to qualify his opinion with posting his own recordings and/or be a writer-producer of it?

i think when someone feels entitled to make comments like

This is a perfect example of overplaying

that implies a level of knowledge of the song's intent that is not available to just a casual listener. the statement "overplaying" implies a knowledge of what "the right amount of playing" is, and that knowledge is only going to be available to the composer of the song. since the poster in question (azarias) made claims predicated on being privy to the composer's side of the glass, then i can understand the desire to hear his own compositions.

 

[James Hart]

One of musics first goals when coming from a artist is it's intention to touch us and whether the listener likes it or not,in the end it stills comes down to how the listener has interpreted it.


And there is no music in existence that has escaped this.

Hmmm... while that may be the case with some, I personally write and record for myself. If my tunes 'touch' somebody is secondary at best. I know of a lot of artist that just 'do their own thing' without regard to a listener... some do catch listeners ears enough to 'make it', a lot (like me) most likely won't.

 

[James Hart]

that implies a level of knowledge of the song's intent that is not available to just a casual listener. the statement "overplaying" implies a knowledge of what "the right amount of playing" is, and that knowledge is only going to be available to the composer of the song.

valid point... but the listener also has the ability to gauge if they'd like more or less in any given part. As musicians, we have the ability to better describe what we like / dislike.

You've often read that you feel Ian Hill underplays... and I know you didn't write anything for Judas Priest

 

[lousybassplayer]

how do you know that for certain?

 

[chicago_mike]

They're long out of print, but Ramsey Lewis' Keys to the City and CLassic Encounter are prime examples of what Bill can do with the 3rd Ken Smith 6 string bass ever built.

Although Ramsey told him to turn the lights off, so ken made a box to do just that..lol.

I have heard his solo album that has been in the making for way too long and quite a number of tracks will turn heads..in the..."wait..wheres the solo? Theres no solo?" vein.

with over 6 billion people on the planet, one would hope theres enough variety for everybody.

 

[azarias]

i think when someone feels entitled to make comments like

that implies a level of knowledge of the song's intent that is not available to just a casual listener. the statement "overplaying" implies a knowledge of what "the right amount of playing" is, and that knowledge is only going to be available to the composer of the song. since the poster in question (azarias) made claims predicated on being privy to the composer's side of the glass, then i can understand the desire to hear his own compositions.

You seem to be implying that if i want to criticize music I must either know and understand the intent of the composer or i must first check my credentials at the door....See my previous comment about this type of thinking.

Its simple. If Stanley Clarke dropped in to this thread and said it was "overplaying" there would be no objections. I am not Stanley. However, i think he would agree that all of us humans have equal rights to our opinions. There is a difference between explaining why you like or dislike a thing and simply saying it "sucks" right? We should always resist the urge to be defensive when a persons opinion differs from ours no?

Edit: I even overplay sometimes /gasp 8) Who doesnt?

 

[john turner]

You've often read that you feel Ian Hill underplays... and I know you didn't write anything for Judas Priest

i can find 1 time that i've critiqued him, and i said he "got the job done" like the sole of a shoe. i've also provided numerous examples of my playing, so that folks can understand where i'm coming from, and can qualify my opinions in their own minds should they wish to do so.

also, you only partially quoted me, losing the intent of my post. i said that i could then understand why someone would want to hear the critic's own compositions, since the statement is directed toward the -compositional- content (which is by nature subjective) as opposed to criticism of the objectively more verifiable -technical- content of a song. if the critic has a rudimentary compositional knowledge, then yeah, they are probably going to find certain elements of music distasteful due to their own, for lack of a better term, ignorance.

when i first heard giant steps, i thought it sucked - rampant atonal "overplaying" wankery - surely it had to have been a mistake, or a joke. as i learned more about music, and composition, i came to understand the point more. i still don't necessarily like it, but i understand it, and understand the "wankery" for what it is.

 

[john turner]

You seem to be implying that if i want to criticize music I must either know and understand the intent of the composer or i must first check my credentials at the door....

no, i said i can understand where this thinking comes from. if you want your opinion on compositional matters to be taken seriously by other composers (which you obviously do since you -shared- it) then it probably would behoove you to share your work, to understand where you're coming from.

Its simple. If Stanley Clarke dropped in to this thread and said it was "overplaying" there would be no objections.

and stanley clarke's compositions are readily available for folks to listen to and understand where -he's- coming from.

I am not Stanley. However, i think he would agree that all of us humans have equal rights to our opinions. There is a difference between explaining why you like or dislike a thing and simply saying it "sucks" right? We should always resist the urge to be defensive when a persons opinion differs from ours no?

we should equally resist the urge to be 'offensive' in our opinions, since doing so only shows one's bigotry.

you stated earlier that you felt that certain opinions could only be expressed in a way that would be offensive to those they were about. to me that seems more like a statement on the critic than it is on the work they are critiquing.

 

[Ric5]

18 string bass here ... http://guitars101.wordpress.com/tag/18-string-guitar/

15 string bass here ... Link Removed

 

[azarias]

no, i said i can understand where this thinking comes from. if you want your opinion on compositional matters to be taken seriously by other composers (which you obviously do since you -shared- it) then it probably would behoove you to share your work, to understand where you're coming from.

and stanley clarke's compositions are readily available for folks to listen to and understand where -he's- coming from.

we should equally resist the urge to be 'offensive' in our opinions, since doing so only shows one's bigotry.

"To understand where i am coming from"? i dont understand the relevance. I dont see how hearing my playing somehow helps anyone understand my opinions. Personally i think it just opens the door to this type of thinking: "you dont play jazz so your comments carry no weight"
Implying recordings are required to "back up" a persons opinion is well umm silly. I am certainly not some uneducated punk nor should i have to start "dropping names" to prove anything. You either believe we are all equal or you dont... My wife is completely tone deaf and will never learn even a simple melody - Yet, i value her opinion about music. I think she even has good taste. 8)

Another way to say what i said earlier about offensive opinions - Some opinions are going to offend people even if it is not the intent. Some individuals are going to be offended no matter how hard you try to carefully explain why you dislike X thing. Some things are better left unsaid but sometimes you get asked the questions so you say it anyway.
Edit:How many times has a person asked you if you like their new song and you had to lie?
Wow i am starting to regret getting into this thread