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A Couple of Envelope Filter Questions

jdh3000

jdh3000

May 16, 2016
1,702
1,830
#1
I'm thinking about getting a stand alone envelope filter. I've been using a couple in my Zoom Ms60b. The patches have level controls on them.

I've only seen a couple on the market that have a gain control. Is it typical of envelope filters to not have any kind of input or output level control?

If I was going to leave it in a line loop always on it wouldn't be much of an issue, but I'll be bypassing it more often than not and need the volume consistant.

I liked the Aguilar filter but a few reviews said it boosted volume while engaged. I could get another Boss LS-2 or something similar to fix that issue but I don't want to spend more and use up more space on my board.

Second question is for anyone who has used the Zoom effects envelopes.... Do you find them comparable to stand alone pedals? Would I be just as well off keeping the zoom on there for that?
I know there are a lot of variables.

I'd just like some opinions from you
all who've had experience with this.
 
#4
@GMC has the best advice here unless you decide to go for the C4 Synth instead. You are already used to using expanded digital controls and functions and saving presets plus Source Audio is higher quality sound wise and feel.

While there is a certain charm, feel and sound to analog filter pedals, I've collected many, with the exception of the EHX BassBalls live I'm relying on either my Source Audio or occasionally my Zoom pedals.
 
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#5
Another vote for the Spectrum. It has amazing stuff available with the Neuro Editor, the Community presets, but it is also an amazingly versatile envelope filter right out of the box. The 6 factory presets are fantastic, and would be all most players would ever really need. But dive a bit deeper and you get dozens and dozens of community presets, or create your own. Or don't. This one can be plug and play, with some obvious, and labeled knobs. Gain, sensitivty, and volume all right there, though, perhaps with a push of a small button on the back to toggle. Oh, and if you want to add distortion and/or +/- octaves, it does that. You want 2 envelope filters on left and right? Can do it. You want to sum those together? Can do that, too. Oh, and phasing.
 
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#6
+1 Spectrum.

Practically any filtering you want, it can do it.
You want a volume control? No problem.
You want two different filters happening at the same time? Yep, it can do that too.
Maybe you'll eventually want some octave effects, it's got that covered too.

Really.

The only other thing that I'd recommend is the C4, does all the same things as the Spectrum but it's got synth stuff in it. If you don't want synth effects, then it might be overkill. I wanted synth so that what I got, had I been focused on getting filtering happening and no synth then I would of bought the Spectrum.
 
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#7
+1 to the SA stuff if you are comfortable with the computer editor.

I started with a Zoom g5n, then I bought a SA C4. The sound quality/difference is night and day when comparing the C4 to the Zoom. The C4 or Spectrum are amazing pedals (the C4 can use the Spectrum patches). For me, I found myself fiddling with the editor more than I was playing and I was getting frustrated (computers are not really my thing), so I ended up selling the C4 and getting a 3leaf audio Proton. I like having all the controls right there in front of me without the need to connect to a phone or computer. Now I'm on the waiting list for a Barbanera.

The envelope filter rabbit hole is very deep.... if you are computer savvy, just get the C4, people aren't lying, it really can do everything
 
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#9
jdh3000 said:
I'm thinking about getting a stand alone envelope filter. I've been using a couple in my Zoom Ms60b. The patches have level controls on them.

I've only seen a couple on the market that have a gain control. Is it typical of envelope filters to not have any kind of input or output level control?

If I was going to leave it in a line loop always on it wouldn't be much of an issue, but I'll be bypassing it more often than not and need the volume consistant.

I liked the Aguilar filter but a few reviews said it boosted volume while engaged. I could get another Boss LS-2 or something similar to fix that issue but I don't want to spend more and use up more space on my board.

Second question is for anyone who has used the Zoom effects envelopes.... Do you find them comparable to stand alone pedals? Would I be just as well off keeping the zoom on there for that?
I know there are a lot of variables.

I'd just like some opinions from you
all who've had experience with this.
Click to expand...
I think you do want a slight volume boost when using an EF so I would not let that alone disuade you from the Aggie Filtertwin. Also, I find all the patches in the MS60B to have a significant volume boost baked in. I had to lower the level of every single one I use.

I did like the EFs in the Zoom just fine, but honestly, for me, the Zoom fails me onstage. Only the synth stuff ever really made me happy when kicking it on at a gig. The other effects just sound really flat in a dense soundstage. The EFs work but are not inspiring.

I like MXR BEF, it is a band pass filter with volume knobs for both effect and clean. I also use the Xerograph Dlx v2 which also has volume for both clean and filter. What these units have over the Filtertwin is more control over the frequency and shape of the filter sweep. I prefer resonant squelchy sounds with the EF, when I use it I am not going for subtle.

The Spectrum has a lot of great filter sounds, and both input and output volume controls. I think it sounds great, but I have not used it at a gig yet. In solo playing/practicing I thought the Zoom sounded good too, so the stage is the true test. I will say I think the Spectrum has better sounds than the Zoom.
 
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#12
Analog, I'd go JoshWah. Source Audio is the name in the game for comprehensive filters though. They really know what they're doing and if you can manage to accept the software side, you can pretty much have whatever filter based effect you want.
 
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#14
Neither of my filters have gain controls. This can be a problem because hevy filtering removes a lot of the signal, therefore lowering volume.

My DOD FX25 when set to give that Bill Laswell dub sound...filter almost entirely closed with a "burping" sound as it opens up...the loss of gain is significant. I can't compensate with the instrument volume, because that opens up the filter.

My Bassballs can get a lot louder when the filter opens.
 
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#15
Nobis17 said:
+1 to the SA stuff if you are comfortable with the computer editor.

I started with a Zoom g5n, then I bought a SA C4. The sound quality/difference is night and day when comparing the C4 to the Zoom. The C4 or Spectrum are amazing pedals (the C4 can use the Spectrum patches). For me, I found myself fiddling with the editor more than I was playing and I was getting frustrated (computers are not really my thing), so I ended up selling the C4 and getting a 3leaf audio Proton. I like having all the controls right there in front of me without the need to connect to a phone or computer. Now I'm on the waiting list for a Barbanera.

The envelope filter rabbit hole is very deep.... if you are computer savvy, just get the C4, people aren't lying, it really can do everything
Click to expand...

I think that the Source Audio gear it's easy to over complicate things. These pedals can go really deep if you want to. But you don't need to go deep just because the pedal can. You don't need the computer interface if you want to keep things simple. The device has 6 patches (3 green zone and 3 red zone). How many filter patches are you going to need? The unit has 4 knobs to play with and they do most of what a filter needs. However, push the button on the back and those 4 knobs drop into their alternative function. So that's effectively 8 knobs to play with.
Even in this super simple approach, the user interface is more comprehensive than most single sound analogue circuit. With this device, you get 6 patches...I have an iron Ether patch, a Moog patch, OC-2 patch, a Funkulator patch. I rarely need to break out the pedal's laptop USB editor unless I'm creating an entirely new sound, trying out a new community patch or backing up my device.
I have a Source Audio lunar that covers my modulation needs and I run this mostly without the desktop editor and use just the 6 patches and 4 knobs..works for me and keeps it really simple.
 
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#16
I bought fancy ones including the SA as well as the Pigtronix offerings and for bass, the one that delivers is the MXR Bass Envelope filter - The only other thing better (debatable) is routing the bass output (after I have converted it to line level plus compressed a bit with a compressor) to an analog synth audio input and in my case it was either the Arturia mini brute II or the Korg MS-20 and using the onboard filters in these synths. Oh yeah I also routed it to a Moog clone from Behringer as well as a Matriarch but I like the Arturia and special Korg Ms-20. But too much work. The MXR is my favorite.
 
#17
I currently have a C4 on my board which includes the Spectrum functions, it is a very good tool.
I also have a Josh Wah which is great for bass but I fight the gain a little.
I have a Seamoon which I love for bass as a stand-alone.
I also just got a used Resotron but I admit I haven’t fully figured it out yet.

I’d say Source Spectrum or C4 which includes the Spectrum. Or a Seamoon.
The Source is fantastic. You have to invest some time learning the dashboard but it is worth the effort.
 
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#20
jdh3000 said:
I'm thinking about getting a stand alone envelope filter. I've been using a couple in my Zoom Ms60b. The patches have level controls on them.

I've only seen a couple on the market that have a gain control. Is it typical of envelope filters to not have any kind of input or output level control?

If I was going to leave it in a line loop always on it wouldn't be much of an issue, but I'll be bypassing it more often than not and need the volume consistant.

I liked the Aguilar filter but a few reviews said it boosted volume while engaged. I could get another Boss LS-2 or something similar to fix that issue but I don't want to spend more and use up more space on my board.

Second question is for anyone who has used the Zoom effects envelopes.... Do you find them comparable to stand alone pedals? Would I be just as well off keeping the zoom on there for that?
I know there are a lot of variables.

I'd just like some opinions from you
all who've had experience with this.
Click to expand...
Envelope filters frustrate me. I'd recommend a limiter right after it to reign in the volume spike. My vote is the C4, BTW.
 
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