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A Fairly Avante Garde Single Cut

Alex Xander

Alex Xander

Oct 10, 2005
1,471
5,316
Out in the the bush, Australia
#1
I've been mulling this idea over in my head for quite some time, and have started buying parts to make it a reality.

Presenting the result of quite a lot of CAD work getting a design I was happy with.

att.IEW7cQxlaXXfFFuHP9Zb9bwBhwRIB_qJ-0fDLLYrdE0.jpeg


This bass will likely be built entirely from pressure dyed veneer laminated from CWP Lamintes in Finland. I have a board of this stuff heading my way, which should be just enough to make the whole bass.

IMG_1298.jpeg



Now, for specs
38" scale five string fretless tuned BEADG
Labella Xl tapewounds
Ray Ross 19mm bridge (picked for its ability to get a 38" scale instrument out of the Labella tapes
Rear mounted EMG 40DC pickups
Single truss rod with twin 12x3mm stainless reinforcement
Not 100% sure on electronics, but I have an ACG EQ01 on my parts shelf looking for a home.
Gotoh 707 tuners (black).

Contradicting my crude render above, the bass will almost certainly be all black. Hardware, wood and strings.

I have used the laminate material from CWP on rifle stocks in the past. It's very tough. Hard and durable.

Hold on tight, this could be a wild ride.
 
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#2
Alex Xander said:
I've been mulling this idea over in my head for quite some time, and have started buying parts to make it a reality.

Presenting the result of quite a lot of CAD work getting a design I was happy with.

View attachment 7277989

This bass will likely be built entirely from pressure dyed veneer laminated from CWP Lamintes in Finland. I have a board of this stuff heading my way, which should be just enough to make the whole bass.

View attachment 7277990


Now, for specs
38" scale five string fretless tuned BEADG
Labella Xl tapewounds
Ray Ross 19mm bridge (picked for its ability to get a 38" scale instrument out of the Labella tapes
Rear mounted EMG 40DC pickups
Single truss rod with twin 12x3mm stainless reinforcement
Not 100% sure on electronics, but I have an ACG EQ01 on my parts shelf looking for a home.
Gotoh 707 tuners (black).

Contradicting my crude render above, the bass will almost certainly be all black. Hardware, wood and strings.

I have used the laminate material from CWP on rifle stocks in the past. It's very tough. Hard and durable.

Hold on tight, this could be a wild ride.
Click to expand...


Looks interesting. I'm looking forward to a presumably unbiased opinion of the Ray Ross bridge.
 
#11
Matt Liebenau said:
Looks interesting. I'm looking forward to a presumably unbiased opinion of the Ray Ross bridge.
Click to expand...
It was selected solely for its ability to get the longest scale length out of some factory strings.

Unlike some of its many critics I have an undergrad in engineering, so I most certainly will offer an objective view on said bridge. I read the very long threads here on the bridge design. Mr Ross didn't do himself any favours with his demeanour, but having his bridge repeatedly criticised by at least one person that never owned one could be tiring.

BassBrass said:
Just don't take it down to the Titanic in your carbon fiber submarine. It'll cut ya.
seriously, the cut out from the headstock doesn't leave much material for the D string tuner. G&L's cutout is less radical.
Click to expand...
There will be enough meat there. Ill thicken the headstock the maximum the tuners will allow.
ole Jason said:
That looks very cool. How do the D/G strings feel & sound at such a long scale?
Click to expand...
Just fine. I have built many 38 and 39" basses. The sound perhaps a little thinner. Playability isn't really different in my hands.
Why Nautilus‽ said:
As usual, beyond excited for your builds.

I agree with the other comments on headstock but offer you this, what about a reversed headstock?
Click to expand...
Good to see you on board! I did consider a reversed, but the way it is it matches curves and cutouts on the body.
Dirk Diggler said:
The lower bout looks dangerously pointy, I do like the open single cut space and points there for sure.
Click to expand...
Yeah, it certainly won't be constructed with the same sharpness as the design!
 
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#13
The desing looks awesome! A more aggressive single cut.


I'd be interested in seeing what the material behaves like when cut and machined.


Oh and I have a couple of questions regarding the extra long scale you mentioned:


Do you set the action very low to compensate for the extra high tension?


What string gauge do you use?


What does the B string behave as sound and playability wise?


Do you EQ it differently from a regular 5 string?


Best of luck with the project.
 
#14
Istruggle said:
The desing looks awesome! A more aggressive single cut.


I'd be interested in seeing what the material behaves like when cut and machined.


Oh and I have a couple of questions regarding the extra long scale you mentioned:


Do you set the action very low to compensate for the extra high tension?


What string gauge do you use?


What does the B string behave as sound and playability wise?


Do you EQ it differently from a regular 5 string?


Best of luck with the project.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the interest. I have made a bad habit of making xl scale basses. Probably a few dozen by now.

The gauge and the action are pretty well the same as I would use for a 34" scale basses. The reasoning is as follows -
For a given tension, the longer the scale, the further the string will vibrate. As an extreme, consider your strings on the tuner side of the nut. Even though it has the same tension as the open string between the nut and the bridge, pluck it and it barely moves.

I have found that if I run strings with the same tensions on my 38-40.5" scale basses as I do on a regular bass (about 40lbs), they feel quite floppy and in turn need either a gentle touch or higher action.

When custom ordering strings from Newtone Strings, I usually specify a 136 for the B string. At 39" the tension is that string is about 50lbs, or 25% higher than you might expect.

Here's the kicker - it's doesn't really feel any tighter. This is because the speaking length of the string (vs a 34" bass) is always longer for a given note.

EQ wise, I don't do anything differently. To get a great low B (or F#), my secret sauce is always the same for EQ - a Broughton Resonant Filter Equaliser. I set the high pass filter fairly high (60ish hertz for a B string equipped bass) and give it about 9db of boost. To me, it s a game changer and something I'm surprised more people have not jumped on.
 
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#15
Looking forward to watching this build. I lean more towards short scale, and have been toying with building a SS 5 string fretless. Overall concept similar, but with smooth lines. more like a tear drop with the upper bout extended like your design. Hope to have a drawing to post before too long.
 
#16
It's becoming a reality. The CWP laminate is fairly good to work with. Certainly easier on the tools that than the average Aussie hardwood, but also very tough. While it's birch, there's a lot of glue holding things together. When routing, the smell it produces is most un-woodlike.

IMG_1427.jpeg


A question for the brainstrust -

Which direction should I head?

A completely black five string bass with hidden EMGs (rear mounted) black tapewounds and a 5 string Ray Ross bridge

OR

Black "wood" with gold hardware and gold pickups. I have a trio of gold MEC soapbars looking for a home and some optimate gold strings. The only downside I can think of for this approach is that round wounds will be tougher on the fingerboard and it's hardness is fairly unknown. I'm confident it will handle tapes, not sure about rounds.

I don't build for a particular need, I do it because I like building. Accordingly, what's practical isn't really a factor.
 
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#19
Ok pal... hold up.
Gonna need more pictures.
Super intrigued (now) about using CWP in an instrument build.
Don't know why I never thought about it yet. Been seeing that stuff used for knife scales and gun stocks for a while.
Are you using it for the whole neck as well?
I didn't see blanks longer than 1020mm
 
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