A Faster S.S. Head?

[Windreaper]

Well yes, you'd gain about 1ms per foot you moved your ear closer to the speaker . Still you can stand several meters from your stack without noticing much delay, it's magic I tell you.

 

[will33]

That would be back to dealing with the speed of sound through the air and not the speed of electricity through parts/cables, etc.

I like when all these engineers start talking about all this stuff. Always pickup new bits of info or just a better appreciation for what all goes into this stuff so the rest of us can just plug in, play and sound good.

 

[agedhorse]

Analog synthesizers are what got me interested in waveforms, harmonics, and Fourier series.

The need to pass my engineering courses got me interested

 

[okcrum]

and for bonus points, what is a "simple" square wave made up of?

Fundamental and all odd harmonics decreasing in amplitude at 6 dB/octave. That's why you could see it and hear it.

 

[Bob Lee (QSC)]

The need to pass my engineering courses got me interested

I was in high school when I started trying to figure out how VCOs, VCAs, VCFs, envelope generators, gates, triggers, control voltages, etc. worked. It's essentially analog computation, and that led to exploring op amps and related stuff. I'm still fascinated by all that.

 

[xk49w]

In DSP, if you are willing to accept some uniform delay (across the entire spectrum) then anything is possible. Specifically, it's possible to look ahead in RELATIVE time. This is how some fast DSP limiting operates without clicks and chirps.

The throughput delay is a problem of software architecture and the processing algorithms required. Regardless, there can be unacceptable values.

In the voice radio world where the person transmitting hears his own voice (sidetone) a delay of more than about 5 msec starts to become obtrusive. As you might imagine, there have been studies on this. If it gets to be too long the speaker gets distracted and the delay interferes with his conversation - messes up his train of thought/speech. I would think the same sort of mechanism would be distracting to a bass player, if the delay were long enough.

 

[JHAz]

Like using a phaser, I think that only becomes an issue if you can hear both signals. I seldom play so quietly that I can hear my bass over the sound of the bass through the amp . . .

 

[billfitzmaurice]

Like using a phaser, I think that only becomes an issue if you can hear both signals.

+1. In the case of playing an instrument through an amp delay on the order of 25ms is required before it gets to be a problem.

 

[fdeck]

+1. In the case of playing an instrument through an amp delay on the order of 25ms is required before it gets to be a problem.

Dang, it takes me longer than 25 ms to remember what to play.

 

[agedhorse]

The throughput delay is a problem of software architecture and the processing algorithms required. Regardless, there can be unacceptable values.

I was thinking specifically of the case of delaying the signal and then looking "ahead" to allow time to do the computations then subtract that time from the look ahead delay to get a fixed delay as the computations may be different depending on the equation being solved and the data provided at any slice in time.

(of course you can't REALLY look ahead unless you delay, so what you look ahead to is relative to the delayed time.)

 

[agedhorse]

I was in high school when I started trying to figure out how VCOs, VCAs, VCFs, envelope generators, gates, triggers, control voltages, etc. worked. It's essentially analog computation, and that led to exploring op amps and related stuff. I'm still fascinated by all that.

I was interested in this stuff too, but probably more interested in the packaging mechanicals, and simplifying design approaches to inprove reliability, failure analysis, manufacturing processes, etc. The circuit design was/is a necessary evil BUT I am enjoying it more and more as I get older. I also find myself getting more creative as I look back into my "experience file".

Hey you engineering types... what sorts of things really get you interested in a project???

Anybody fall into the "because it can't be done, I'm going to prove the world wrong and figure out a way" field?

 

[fdeck]

Hey you engineering types... what sorts of things really get you interested in a project???

I enjoy projects where I get to learn something new, and maybe come up with something creative.

 

[B-string]

I was interested in this stuff too, but probably more interested in the packaging mechanicals, and simplifying design approaches to inprove reliability, failure analysis, manufacturing processes, etc. The circuit design was/is a necessary evil BUT I am enjoying it more and more as I get older. I also find myself getting more creative as I look back into my "experience file".

Hey you engineering types... what sorts of things really get you interested in a project???

Anybody fall into the "because it can't be done, I'm going to prove the world wrong and figure out a way" field?

Didn't get the chance before accepting a move to upper management. The part in bold was my job, I enjoyed that much more than the problem solving of management. It was more a satisfying type of creative.

It can't be done, is just no one has done it yet?

 

[seamonkey]

Fundamental and all odd harmonics decreasing in amplitude at 6 dB/octave. That's why you could see it and hear it.

Square Waves are the "Man"!

In "Magic Man" and "Lucky Man" the synth starts with a square wave. Many analog synth hit solos are square.

 

[seamonkey]

The throughput delay is a problem of software architecture and the processing algorithms required. Regardless, there can be unacceptable values.

In the voice radio world where the person transmitting hears his own voice (sidetone) a delay of more than about 5 msec starts to become obtrusive. As you might imagine, there have been studies on this. If it gets to be too long the speaker gets distracted and the delay interferes with his conversation - messes up his train of thought/speech. I would think the same sort of mechanism would be distracting to a bass player, if the delay were long enough.

Try it
Take a 5ft piece of hose and run it from your mouth to your ear and talk.

Or just play with any old delay and turn off the dry signal. Or use any of the many plugins that do delays. Human brains can easily compensate for set delay.

A drummer hits a cymbal 5ft from his ears - i.e. 5ms, and the snare a couple of feet away and works it out.

DSP and CPU are part of many signal chains, including many top acts running the big rigs.

I can say also it's easy to tune out the echo delay on those world wide conference calls. IP, Skype, Speed of light, Satellites, and somehow your voice always echoes back from somebodies connection. It's not ideal but people compensate.

 

[will33]

I was thinking specifically of the case of delaying the signal and then looking "ahead" to allow time to do the computations then subtract that time from the look ahead delay to get a fixed delay as the computations may be different depending on the equation being solved and the data provided at any slice in time.

(of course you can't REALLY look ahead unless you delay, so what you look ahead to is relative to the delayed time.)

Far out, man.

I love you guys.

Please continue.....

 

[okcrum]

Close. It's totally inaudible. And a good thing, too, as every component in your amp, your speakers and anything else in the signal chain imparts some degree of phase shift. Phase only becomes an issue when you mix two sources with differing phase. An extreme case of what happens then can be heard when you use an effect called, of all things, a phasor.

A square wave is ideally an infinite number of related signals. When you mess with them relative to each other, you sure as shootin' can hear it in an A/B test as long as the system can reproduce enough of the component frequencies. How do I know this? One of my work study projects in school was building a Fourier series demonstration unit for the physics lectures, which allowed you to mix a 400 Hz fundamental + harmonics and vary the phase and amplitude of each harmonic separately, for the first 16 harmonics of the fundamental. The lectures got to see the changes on a display and hear them too. And hear them you could. Not just the differences between saws, triangles, and squares either.

 

[JHAz]

amplitude is different from phase. Differing amplitude of the harmonics should be audible. Differing phase relationships, not.

 

[okcrum]

amplitude is different from phase. Differing amplitude of the harmonics should be audible. Differing phase relationships, not.

You should try it yourself. It should be trivial to recreate the apparatus today, compared to 40 years ago.

 

[billfitzmaurice]

A square wave is ideally an infinite number of related signals. When you mess with them relative to each other, you sure as shootin' can hear it in an A/B test as long as the system can reproduce enough of the component frequencies.

What you describe is a totally different scenario from what's being discussed.