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A glimpse into how much semi-big full time bands make?

I think it's ok to state an opinion that a genre sucks - to you. If you like it great. Why get upset about what someone else thinks.

On topic, if too many people think the band is just noise or unoriginal then that could explain why they are struggling. So could a younger fan base that doesn't buy any music.
 


This band is TERRIBLE. They sound exactly like 10,000 other TERRIBLE bands. How is that guy a "singer?" How many bands can this genre support, anyway? It's not exactly diverse.

Here's another song:



And another:



I can't tell any difference at all between these songs. The "singer" uses the same note almost the entire time.

I've been working day jobs since the seventies. Why should these guys get paid anything more than what they're making? Shouldn't they at least try to play music that has an audience? How is this even "metal?" I don't recall metal sounding like this.

People like it, it's music, he's a vocalist, it's metal, and your opinion doesn't change that.

No it's not my thing either, but I hate to see someone pursue their passion and have to Hang it up.
 
People like it, it's music, he's a vocalist, it's metal, and your opinion doesn't change that.

No it's not my thing either, but I hate to see someone pursue their passion and have to Hang it up.

I have to think many people vent on the 'net because they are so PC-repressed at their day jobs. :(

It might turn out that 80% of 'net traffic is either trolling or raging. :D
 
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Real-life conversation a few weeks ago, where I was complaining about having too many rehearsals and gigs in one weekend. "Well, if you want to be a professional musician...." "Of course I don't want to be a professional musician, do you know how much they're paying me here?" while pointing to the building where I work.
In many European countries, especially Scandinavian countries, artists who can prove they are working are given a stipend from the government for living expenses, not to mention the numerous public grants available to them that can be used to finance their work.

And that's on top of a significantly higher average pay rate from venues for live gigs.
Ha. I know some punk guys whose best-paying gigs are subsidized music festivals, and who also played in museums and live on government radio. We're friends, so I don't personally remind them I'm one of the corporate guys whose taxes pay for all that, but I do mock them relentlessly for being so punk that the government supports them.
 
Okay, if I make kitten anus flavored smoothies then....
You get the point



Had to bring this back..

I had a good laugh when the tables and chairs were being broken over heads of the cowboys.. That's the good stuff..

speaking of singing, this guy does all the screaming low blow mono-tone and can do the "real" or whatever singing of Rock/Pop/ normal styles..
anybody into Devin Townsend?

But he made good money and this doesn't relate at all probably..



 
The band needs to learn how to connect with their fans directly in a way that generates income without outside interference.

Ding, ding, ding we have a winner!

I used to really be into heavy music. Until recently I was even in a metal-ish band. Life events have made it very difficult to listen to music with this sort of intensity anymore (though this particular band is not my cup of tea). I also was a music journalist and primarily covered heavy metal. Here is the thing. Club owners are making money. Record labels are making money (I spoke to one record label manager who was telling me how indie rock labels can't imagine how a metal label makes so much). Promoters are making money. Merchandisers are making money. You know who isn't making money in heavy metal? The bands. I suspect this is true of lots of genres of music. Look at how many talented guys are on this form. There are guys on here whose talent and ability I will never, ever see but they play in cover bands. Why? Because they make more than they would playing originals.

The people who are making the money finally realized that at the end of the day they don't have to pay the bands. If this guy quits there will be another guy to take his place and there will be enough fans to keep buy the next guy's stuff.
 
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i was a concert promoter in the early 90s. My partner and I paid about 500 dollars for an insider magazine that listed hundreds of bands of all genre their agents contact info and minimum guarantee to book them. It also showed all major tours of the year with revenue and % of tickets sold.

You would be shocked at what most bands get. Metal is a major exception. The clubs and festivals for metal do not have the wealth of fanbase to charge enough....also the whole pay to play thing that metal bands go thru pollutes the whole end of the business.

Other genre fair WAYYYYYY better. Relatively unknown artists within most genres get good money. A good example is Leo Kotke. Not mainstream. Very little exposure outside of a small loyal fanbase. Leo got a 5K guarantee playing 500-700 seats. Still does. If you play solo acoustic 200 times a year for 5K you are doing more then just OK. There were over a thousand similar acts.....more. the big names got 100K-1,000,000 to book a date....half in advance. You would be shocked at some that get over 20K to sign on the dotted line. Man i wish I still had a copy of one those magazines.....my partner kept them.

I would put artists such as the Yardbirds, Adrian Belew, Living Color, Al Dimeola, and most 500-700 seat performers at the 5-10K per gig number. Obscure genres get less......metal is very subdivided. No one outside of the genre has ever heard of most of these guys!!
 
The economics of the music business are bad. Period. There are several "easier" ways to make a living in this biz, by teaching, recording, playing commercial gigs etc. I say easier, because you have to work your ass off, and you need to be a great instrumentalist, and for performing as a bass player, sing, but the revenue is more regular than performing.

Or you could be in a band that plays originals. Build reputation, fans, etc and maybe you'll be in the right place at the right time to hit it big. Most of the money in this business is made by a few acts, many of them milking a reputation that is decades old. As for everyone else, they tour, promote, sell the merch, work crappy second jobs when the music money doesn't pay the bills. I've made more money on merch than I made on shows before. I don't think it's uncommon. Even big acts like Taylor Swift allegedly owe their success to their ability to generate interest through non-performance or recording based revenue such as "connecting with the fans" whatever the f**k that is.
 
Another thing....I would never book metal. My opening show in 1990 was the Spin Doctors just before their album was released. Back then they had an edge like the RHCPs.......There was a serious Mosh pit. My meager security was overwelmed. I personally loved a good slam around but the potential for injuries and damage to the concert hall was too great to bring in any modern hard rock. I was afraid to lose my insurance.

I was not alone. I paid very well at my concert hall. I do not believe many promoters are willing to cater to the violence associated with the genre. The clubs left are rolling the dice on not just the weather, competition, and draw....remember I layed out half the guarantee 5 months in advance......You can lose money on a show many ways......many choose not to complicate matters with what comes with metal shows.
 
As some have stated, this group was Deathcore, one of the many offshoots of Metal. Some call this singing style "cookie monster metal" because of the monotone growl. You either love it or hate it.

The less fringe Metal groups have a wider fanbase:
More Earnings & Attendance Figures from SLAYER, LAMB OF GOD, ROB ZOMBIE, THE BLACK DAHLIA MURDER and more - Metal Injection

You're still not going to get pop star rich, even if you're Avenged Sevenfold or Slipknot. But you can make a living if you're at the top of your game, market yourself well... and it helps if you keep your metal a little more "mainstream."

Thanks for the link. If you think about it, though, it actually reinforces the point about the limits on what bands make. The very biggest figure in there is Queens of the Stone Age making $188K at a concert with close to 4,000 in attendance. From there you have a couple of shows making about $155K, then $105K, and down from there - those generally being three-band tours. Ticket prices generally running around $30 each and ballpark 2500-3500 fans at each.

If you take the QOTSA figure, that means you've got maybe $160,000 in ticket sales and $28,000 in merch. Now, the thing is that the venue has to get paid out of the gross, mainly the ticket sales; I suspect about a half-and-half split with the tour. So the tour is now really making $80K plus merch. Out of that, the tour is paying all their touring expenses; renting buses and trucks, paying drivers for the buses and trucks, gas and hotels, paying roadies, lights and sound gear (possibly leased?), producers, promotions and marketing. I suspect that at the end of the day, there're probably about 5-10% of the original gross left to pay the band with - maybe $8,000-16,000. Now, I don't know how that money gets split among band members. There are five guys in QOTSA, but my impression is that the "band" is really Josh Homme... and whoever he happens to be playing with. Most optimistic scenario, $16K split 5 ways, everyone gets $3200 for the night. On a tour with 20 dates, if they're all that big, everyone goes home with $64000. More pessimistic scenario, Homme gets half and the other guys split the rest and there's only $8000 in the pot: he goes home from a 20-date tour $80,000 richer, the other guys only $20K each. Merch adds to that, of course, but of course you have to buy the merch wholesale in the first place (say 50% of its retail cost), and pay a merch crew, and the venue probably wants a 10-20% cut. I can still believe it's adding $10,000 to the pot for the night, which might roughly double what each musician takes home, again depending on how it's split.

That's for the biggest tour of the biggest band in that website; playing in QOTSA can give you a fairly comfortable middle-class existence in the $60-120K range, more if you happen to be Josh Homme. I'm assuming that album sales and digital downloads are only slightly adding to tour figures, based on what everyone says about the music business these days.

But let's look at the other tours; let's say three-band shows grossing $105,000, and again assuming that's consistent for a 20-date tour. With the same proportions of money going to the venue and to touring and promotion expenses, so that 10% is left for musicians, that's $10,500 to pay all three bands. Assuming those bands have five members apiece and it's all even splits, they go home with a whopping $700 from each show. The twenty-show tour earns them a total of $14,000 each. That would be an average; if one act is the clear headliner, they're probably getting more while the support acts get less, and there may be splits involving principal songwriters/bandleaders getting higher proportions and other band members getting less.

I think a lot depends on the genre of music and location. I know a guy who recently became the bass player for a well established local disco band. This band plays mainly private parties and corporate events. He told me that he makes more in one gig with this band than his entire other hard rock band makes for a gig. He said it was enough that he could even quit his day job if he really wanted to. So there are good paying gigs out there if you are lucky enough to find them!

Indeed. That makes the point, though; the real money, insofar as there is any, is not in being a touring, album-releasing rock band. The wedding band/corporate function band has a much better income-to-expense ratio. Nice work if you can get it.
 
Excellent number-crunching post.

I wonder how Darkthrone are doing financially. From what I remember they don't tour, so all they have going for them is album and mail-order merch sales, but their expenses have to be very low. I remember Fenriz working for the postal service many years ago, though.
 
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Excellent number-crunching post.

I wonder how Darkthrone are doing financially. From what I remember they don't tour, so all they have going for them is album and mail-order merch sales, but their expenses have to be very low. I remember Fenriz working for the postal service many years ago, though.

Thanks. I realized I should add that the "comfortable middle-class" income for QOTSA members assumes the optimistic scenario; with the pessimistic scenario they're on more like $20-40K, not bad for a single person to live on maybe but you're not putting your kids through college on that.
 
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Thanks. I realized I should add that the "comfortable middle-class" income for QOTSA members assumes the optimistic scenario; with the pessimistic scenario they're on more like $20-40K, not bad for a single person to live on maybe but you're not putting your kids through college on that.

Rob Zombie has a really nice house in woodbury CT....much better then middle class!! Point taken though. I wish i got half the gate at my shows!! maybe times have changed but usually there is contract defined " split point" for any show unless the band performs without a guarantee ( they dont). The math is the math....they base the guarantee of 70-80% capacity. After that is is normally a 50/50 split. I lost more then I made at the end of the day because of the complexity of the business......I could not anticipate a snow storm when i booked the show in June.....I prayed the band would not make it!! Guess what? Black Uhuru got paid the full guarantee that night. Ticket sales did not even cover the PA!

You can make several grand on a good night when all goes well but lose 10k when things dont. I am not a gambler. You need amazing knowledge and balls of steel to be a promoter....and deep pockets!
 
Rob Zombie has a really nice house in woodbury CT....much better then middle class!! Point taken though. I wish i got half the gate at my shows!! maybe times have changed but usually there is contract defined " split point" for any show unless the band performs without a guarantee ( they dont). The math is the math....they base the guarantee of 70-80% capacity. After that is is normally a 50/50 split. I lost more then I made at the end of the day because of the complexity of the business......I could not anticipate a snow storm when i booked the show in June.....I prayed the band would not make it!! Guess what? Black Uhuru got paid the full guarantee that night. Ticket sales did not even cover the PA!

You can make several grand on a good night when all goes well but lose 10k when things dont. I am not a gambler. You need amazing knowledge and balls of steel to be a promoter....and deep pockets!

I was largely speculating on how the splits would work - thanks for explaining more of how it looks from the house's angle. I'm sure Rob Zombie IS doing very well - I would say he's the equivalent of Josh Homme in my QOTSA numbers. I don't know if those guys are millionaires, but I'm sure they are at least securely in the six-figure income range. What I was more aiming at, though, is trying to guess what Rob Zombie's or Josh Homme's drummer or bassist makes. The link with gross revenues on metal tours drew the conclusion that "you CAN make money playing metal," but the regular guys in the band aren't making anywhere near those gross figures.
 
I'm really not sure what to think about this. They say they are "only" making $16k-$18k per year each. So $17k a year to do something you love . . .

I would jump all over an opportunity like this. I barely make $10k a year (for the past decade or longer) doing something I hate. So yeah, it seems likes kind of like whiny entitlement to me.
 
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