Double Bass A good hybrid string: no such thing?

[Francois Blais]

In my experience, the Original Flexocors (minus the E string) have more life and punch than the Belcantos.

 

[ldekoning]

I am very happy with my Evah regulars as hybrids...they are very dark, produce great pizz with ample mwah, and are super with the bow - similar to flexocor originals. The only drawback, besides a bit of tension, is that they get a little strained at the end of the fingerboard. However, I think with time I will get to them to sing up there! I tried the Evah weichs but they didn't have enough power for my taste, although they do have a better top end.

I've also tried helicore hybrids - way too metallic for my taste - and belcantos. Belcantos were very nice strings - especially for arco in the high registers. However they were quieter and the E string was thuddy for pizz - which seems to be a characteristic of all arco-oriented strings.

From my humble observations, as well as others, it seems that evah pirazzis (regulars or weichs), obligatos, dominants and spiro weichs all make good hybrid strings.

 

[Les Fret]

How are Helicore Hybrids medium for classical bowing?
and for (jazz/fusion) pizzicato?
do they also work with a magnetic pickup?
Thinking about buying a set to try.

 

[DaveAceofBass]

How are Helicore Hybrids medium for classical bowing?
and for (jazz/fusion) pizzicato?
do they also work with a magnetic pickup?
Thinking about buying a set to try.

If you're looking for all of the above I'd look at the Corelli 370.

 

[Les Fret]

Had Spricores for about two years. Like the pizz sound and feel a lot but not the bowing sound. I have tried Corelli 370TX. Didn't like them so much. Now I have Thomastic Superflexibles on my bass. Like them a bit better, but it still is not the one for me.
I run out of options now. Thinking about trying the Helicore Hybrids. If it is good enough for Pattituci or Christian Mc Bride it sure will be good enough for me

 

[Bijoux]

I use EP's regular gauge on my Orchestral bass, an I'll play an occasional jazz gig with that bass. At first they sound a little too dark, but as i start to dig in and get them to speak the bass seem to open up a bit, or maybe it's my ears adjusting to the sound and them all of the sudden i'm in love with the sound.
On the other hand I use Obligatos on my Jazz bass, and occasionally I'll take it to an orchestra rehearsal. And then at first they sound a little brighter than I want. But as I get warmed up, it seems to me like the sound warms up as well, or maybe again, it's just my ears adjusting again...

 

[labravajazz]

Had Spricores for about two years. Like the pizz sound and feel a lot but not the bowing sound. I have tried Corelli 370TX. Didn't like them so much. Now I have Thomastic Superflexibles on my bass. Like them a bit better, but it still is not the one for me.
I run out of options now. Thinking about trying the Helicore Hybrids. If it is good enough for Pattituci or Christian Mc Bride it sure will be good enough for me

Last time I checked pattitucci used gut. Pirastro.

 

[Les Fret]

I guess even the greats keep changing strings.

 

[DaveAceofBass]

I have been trying the new D'Addario Zyex strings. They just might be the best hybrid on the market.

 

[robobass]

... the quest for the ultimate hybrid string is always going to be fruitless, with either the arco sound being too snarly, or the pizz sound not being growly enough, and I may as well start saving up for a second double bass now. One instrument for bowing, another for pizz. ...Jennifer

This may be the case on some basses, but I have found that on my instruments the strings I like best for arco also give me the best pizz. Perhaps you haven't yet found the perfect strings for your instrument, or maybe your bass just doesn't do both things well. In my case, Pirastro Eudoxa (silver on gut) was a cold blooded killer both in the opera pit and on the jazz stage. When that got too expensive I switched to Obligato and am still perfectly happy in both venues.

I've tried a few of the new strings. EP's were just too harsh for me (Perhaps they would be nicer when broken in), Bel Cantos just boring, Corelli - not enough sound. I want to try Zyex, but at the moment I have no motivation to experiment.

I'd try a few more strings. If you don't find something you like then maybe consider getting a different bass.

 

[DaveAceofBass]

This may be the case on some basses, but I have found that on my instruments the strings I like best for arco also give me the best pizz. Perhaps you haven't yet found the perfect strings for your instrument, or maybe your bass just doesn't do both things well. In my case, Pirastro Eudoxa (silver on gut) was a cold blooded killer both in the opera pit and on the jazz stage. When that got too expensive I switched to Obligato and am still perfectly happy in both venues.

I've tried a few of the new strings. EP's were just too harsh for me (Perhaps they would be nicer when broken in), Bel Cantos just boring, Corelli - not enough sound. I want to try Zyex, but at the moment I have no motivation to experiment.

I'd try a few more strings. If you don't find something you like then maybe consider getting a different bass.

The Obligatos feel different than the Zyex. For pizz, the Zyex has a nice growl. I like the Zyex way better for pizz, and I will be reviewing their arco performance after my honeymoon.

 

[fdeck]

The Obligatos feel different than the Zyex. For pizz, the Zyex has a nice growl. I like the Zyex way better for pizz, and I will be reviewing their arco performance after my honeymoon.

Where are your priorities?

 

[darkocuk]

I am really surprised no one suggested trying Dominants. I was a diehard spiro mittels user who plays bow and pizz roughly equal amount of time. I finally decided to embark on a quest for strings that are easier to bow and easier on the left hand and to Chris F.'s advice bought a set of dominants. Needless to say, I found my perfect hybrid!
They sing, they growl, they sound a bit like guts, they project, they are about 15% easier on my left hand and easier to bow. They have a ton of character and nice velvety quality when plucked. They have my vote all the way!

 

[reverendrally]

How are Helicore Hybrids medium for classical bowing?
and for (jazz/fusion) pizzicato?
do they also work with a magnetic pickup?
Thinking about buying a set to try.

I had em. Sort of Ok except the E string was dead. This was an extra problem on my small 3/4 which didn't have much E string to begin with. And the tone of the bass was generally a bit on the nasal side for arco. I don't think you're going to find a good steel hybrid string. IMHO

In the end I ended up with velvet animas, after using garbos in a swing band. I've swapped the garbo G/D over for animas G/D after experiementing with a combo of the two and what a difference. The arco sound is sweet chocolately lows and controlled, even mids and clear highs (for bach cello suites). My guitar player said straight up, "that is so much better!"

Velvets are not cheap strings, but they do sound and feel great. The pizz sound is more on the thumpy, gut side of things, but there is enough growl on the bottom few 3 strings to enjoy. I look at it this way, if I want hours of sustain and mwoah, I just play fretless bg.

 

[DaveAceofBass]

I don't think you're going to find a good steel hybrid string. IMHO

I look at it this way, if I want hours of sustain and mwoah, I just play fretless bg.

Corellis are good hybrid strings. The only thing is they are thinner than most strings (because of the design and tungsten) and the tension is lower. However I find the 370F and 370TX sets to be great for jazz and arco work. The lower tension makes some basses really open up, and they feel great on the hands!

 

[SplitNick]

Labrava...it may just be the Pirastro marketing, but doesn't Patitucci use gut and steel (Olive G/D and Obligato A/E)?

I think I may be the only person digging Obligatos right now. Good bow response, some good pizz growl.

 

[Les Fret]

However I find the 370F and 370TX sets to be great for jazz and arco work. The lower tension makes some basses really open up, and they feel great on the hands!

I didn't like the 370TX set. Too little tension for me and also the pizz sound is not great IMO. Arco is ok, but not great either.

Right I now I have Thomastic Superflexibles on my bass. I like them better then the Correlis and the arco sound is a little better then Spiros weichs. The only drawback is that the tension of the D string is a bit too high for me.

 

[jazzwalk]

I've been searching for the perfect "hybrid" string that will allow both pizz and arco. Recent experiments have directly involved Helicore Hybrid and Pirastro Flexocor strings, and listening to some others not sold as hybrid, such as the Velvet Anima and Super Sensitive Sensicors.

I have derived a couple of conclusions about string suitability for this.

1) Playability. For arco, this is "how well does the string take the bow". For example, this would seem to apply to the ease of getting the string started with a bow stroke, and perhaps the ease of keeping it going without falsing. For pizz, the equivalent would seem to be the feel / response of the string.

2) The sound of the string. For jazz pizz, most people seem to prefer a string with some growl. For arco, I prefer a purer sound - think along the lines of Edgar Meyer's tone on his Bach Cello Suite interpretation.

The biggest conflict to my mind is that it may be possible for a string to be playable arco and pizz, but not sound appropriate for one of these. My main frustration is that the strings I've heard that give a good pizzicato jazz "growl" sound terrible when bowed.

So, the conclusion: I' suggest this is because the properties that give a string a good pizz. growl are the same properties that lead to "snarl" in arco. I don't particulary like this snarly arco sound - at best it is an acquired taste, but my observations would be that for most listeners, it doesn't sound good, especially when amplified.

If this is the case, then the quest for the ultimate hybrid string is always going to be fruitless, with either the arco sound being too snarly, or the pizz sound not being growly enough, and I may as well start saving up for a second double bass now. One instrument for bowing, another for pizz.

Opinions sought - I would love to be found wrong in this!

Jennifer

So many variables to consider; the bass itself (age, construction, setup for basic starters), every bass is unique. Arco versus pizz play; per player, what proportion between the two types? What rosin and how much of it used; bow hair, white to red to black, how tightly its tension adjustment? Amplification? If so, pickup(s) used; mic or piezos or both, and where these are mounted or positioned? On and on it goes, before finding that brand and type of double bass string set that can suffice for all a player wants to do.
Now, cutting to the chase, here's the upshot for this particular folk musician (which includes, for me, pretty much anything, including symphonic orchestra, for which the erstwhile Velvetstring Animas served so well, once upon a time). The bass I have is an old Saxony flatback, made when gut was the only string constitution available, i.e., mid 1800s. When Velvetstring died, the search was on for something at least comparable overall. Finally, for me: Pirastro Perpetual solo gauge, orchestral tuned. Again, on my bass, IMHO, these strings in every aspect actually eclipse Velvetstring Animas (or Blues, the poor 'man's Animas). The total or aggregate tension on the sound board, with my bass definitely, allows a deeper resonance that any brand of orchestral strings would always seem to choke, besides a most supple playability.

 

[Francois Blais]

Finally, for me: Pirastro Perpetual solo gauge, orchestral tuned.

Interesting.
@JeffKissell also said about the same thing in a recent thread.
Good to know, I may check them out when I have the opportunity.

 

[Jeff Kissell]

Definitely happy with Perpetual solos tuned down. The only tricky thing for me is slap technique but all the sounds and feels are in there. I would definitely recommend these as a low tension hybrid.