Double Bass A good hybrid string: no such thing?

[iiipopes]

Stick with a set for a while and learn to get what you want out of it.

THAT should be a sticky!!

 

[DylanD]

For me, original flexocores are a great overall string. I tried them because i was looking for a great orchestra string, but it turns out that they work really well as a jazz string. Brighter than flexocore 92s= better pizz sustain and greater presence in a section. I used permanents for years as a "hybrid" i found them sufficient for both, but not great for both.
I think a big part of finding a good string set/combo has to do with putting the right amount of tension on your bass for it to resonate its best.
Now im looking to put on a heavier e string to give a stronger low end... Maybe spiro stark?

 

[Russell Bergum]

I think a big part of finding a good string set/combo has to do with putting the right amount of tension on your bass for it to resonate its best.
Now im looking to put on a heavier e string to give a stronger low end... Maybe spiro stark?

+1
I really liked Belcanto's. On my fairly new (8 months) bass, the E and A were slowly opening up, but my teacher recommended switching to a Marvin wire tailpiece to help open up the low end. With the Marvin, the Belcanto's felt a little floppy, so I switched to Evah regulars. My bass sounds fantastic now! Great arco tone with a huge low end, and great pizz tone with a very cool attack on the front end of my pizz notes. I'm guessing that Evah weichs would be too floppy, but the Evah regulars and Marvin tailpiece are a match made in heaven, on my bass at least!

 

[Marcus Johnson]

+1
I'm guessing that Evah weichs would be too floppy,

Not in my experience.

 

[nicechuckh]

I'm surprised how much I like the Corelli 380M's. Especially considering the price

 

[Russell Bergum]

Not in my experience.

Do you have a Marvin wire tailpiece?

My comment was referring to Weich's on my my bass with the Marvin tailpiece. The tension of Belcanto's was great with my ebony tailpiece, but with the Marvin tailpiece, the Belcanto's felt floppy, and I'm guessing the same would hold for the weich's.

 

[damonsmith]

Spiro solos are the closest I have found. A little less volume pizz, but the tone and richness is still there. For arco they are beautiful.

 

[labravajazz]

I've been searching for the perfect "hybrid" string that will allow both pizz and arco. Recent experiments have directly involved Helicore Hybrid and Pirastro Flexocor strings, and listening to some others not sold as hybrid, such as the Velvet Anima and Super Sensitive Sensicors.

I have derived a couple of conclusions about string suitability for this.

1) Playability. For arco, this is "how well does the string take the bow". For example, this would seem to apply to the ease of getting the string started with a bow stroke, and perhaps the ease of keeping it going without falsing. For pizz, the equivalent would seem to be the feel / response of the string.

2) The sound of the string. For jazz pizz, most people seem to prefer a string with some growl. For arco, I prefer a purer sound - think along the lines of Edgar Meyer's tone on his Bach Cello Suite interpretation.

The biggest conflict to my mind is that it may be possible for a string to be playable arco and pizz, but not sound appropriate for one of these. My main frustration is that the strings I've heard that give a good pizzicato jazz "growl" sound terrible when bowed.

So, the conclusion: I' suggest this is because the properties that give a string a good pizz. growl are the same properties that lead to "snarl" in arco. I don't particulary like this snarly arco sound - at best it is an acquired taste, but my observations would be that for most listeners, it doesn't sound good, especially when amplified.

If this is the case, then the quest for the ultimate hybrid string is always going to be fruitless, with either the arco sound being too snarly, or the pizz sound not being growly enough, and I may as well start saving up for a second double bass now. One instrument for bowing, another for pizz.

Opinions sought - I would love to be found wrong in this!

Jennifer

Partly adding to the confusion of this topic us that even jazz players don't all have the same ideal for sound - hence the gulf between gut string tone and metal spiro type strings. Gut has the best front to the note and the warmest most complex tone, so suits those wanting the most soulful sound, but the clarity and ease of play of metal strings has it's own merits too. Not all jazz players wish for excessive growl and really for genuine swing playing that can detract from the swing, punch and bounce. Then there are the metal strings so called classical which bow more easily mostly due to very flat winding and muffling substances used in the core. Then there are the synthetic ones like EP etc which try to sound like gut and indeed are easily playable arco or pizz yet unlike gut they only get duller as they are played in.
orchestral players differ too with most liking the duller ones with muted highs to suit arco, and yet some play Spiros and some prefer gut. There is a saying that if a bass sounds good bowed with spiros it is a good bass. So many opinions!
All bass players up until the 1950s generally played gut strings and whether classical or jazz the player could easily use the same strings on the same bass. Progress brought more choices and some improvements and yet the progress lost the advantages of the already existing hybrid strings which were and are gut strings. Already mentioned in other threads are the metal strings of choice from late 50s and 60s Lycons. No longer available but possibly the best hybrids as they were made to compete with gut strings. The package advises to set them at a higher action than other metal strings and somewhere between metal and gut that,s also how they sound and play.
For mine gut or Lycons are the only real hybrids that work. Possible exception Thomastik Superflexible solo gauge tuned down, as used by several old school iconic bassists eg Eugene Wright, Percy Heath, Al McKibbon. IMHO guys like this had or have amongst the best sounds for jazz bass and they can also pull a good arco sound as well.

 

[DaveAceofBass]

Corellis work well for both jazz and arco. However, they are a bit thin and don't give much projection, especially on the E. They are midrange focused, bow great, and sound great amplified for jazz.

 

[Marcus Johnson]

Do you have a Marvin wire tailpiece?

Nope, traditional tailpiece with aircraft cable tailwire. The Evah Weichs feel pretty much the same as Spirocore Mittels on my bass, just as a point of reference. Not floppy at all.

 

[nicechuckh]

Corellis work well for both jazz and arco. However, they are a bit thin and don't give much projection, especially on the E. They are midrange focused, bow great, and sound great amplified for jazz.

I didn't even purchase the corelli E string, from reading posts on here. I'm using a Prelude E

 

[Russell Bergum]

Nope, traditional tailpiece with aircraft cable tailwire. The Evah Weichs feel pretty much the same as Spirocore Mittels on my bass, just as a point of reference. Not floppy at all.

I wouldn't expect them to be floppy with a regular tailpiece, but with a wire tailpiece, they might be.

 

[Eric Hochberg]

I wouldn't expect them to be floppy with a regular tailpiece, but with a wire tailpiece, they might be.

They weren't on my bass with the Marvin.

 

[shadow_FIX]

Everyone's experience will vary with strings, sometimes it's best to just try and experiment until you find what works for you. I have been using Pirastro Obligato's the past 3 years and they work well for me. I play orchestral material, solo classical material, and a crapton of jazz. It works as a good middle ground between the two styles for me.

 

[MLysh]

"Gut has the best front to the note and the warmest most complex tone, so suits those wanting the most soulful sound, but the clarity and ease of play of metal strings has it's own merits too. Not all jazz players wish for excessive growl and really for genuine swing playing that can detract from the swing, punch and bounce."

Not sure that Dave Holland, Ray Brown, Drew Gress, Marc Johnson, George Mraz, and a galaxy of others would agree with this old truism.

 

[labravajazz]

"Gut has the best front to the note and the warmest most complex tone, so suits those wanting the most soulful sound, but the clarity and ease of play of metal strings has it's own merits too. Not all jazz players wish for excessive growl and really for genuine swing playing that can detract from the swing, punch and bounce."

Not sure that Dave Holland, Ray Brown, Drew Gress, Marc Johnson, George Mraz, and a galaxy of others would agree with this old truism.

Well as I mentioned there are merits to metal strings as well, practicality being the main one. FWIW I was on the same bill as George Mraz on a tour in Japan and backstage he checked out my set up ( Golden Spirals at the time) and commented on how he always loved Golden Spirals. I know Ray Brown said he would NEVER return to gut strings but check out the sound Ray Brown had with gut and compare with your own ears to the metal sound on recordings after he changed. Even then he had a great sound from metal strings but they were Lycons. Compare that to the Spiro sound recordings.

Anyway my point was that gut strings were the original hybrid string. Only after metal did we have to have one string for classical and a different one for jazz. I'm not just sprouting "old truisms" - I've played all these strings myself. Have you?

 

[Marcus Johnson]

That was a good post. I've taken some flak for playing all guts. But they do everything really well for me.

 

[lucas vigor]

Belcantos. On my bass, the pizz growl and sustain are good, the percussive note start, groovy. The arco is dreamy. Downside; the sound, arco, is a bit Bb; they are as close to totally neutral as anything I have tried. Pizz does not have EUB or fretless EB sustain, like the Spiros I used to use.

I agree with Marcus; ancient Spiros are good too, and brighter under the stick. Though not as easy to start on the A and E.

For me, Belcantos are a perfect hybrid, with a touch more weight on the arco side. Spiros are a perfect hybrid, with a little more weight on the pizz side.

Belcantos...if they are older, even better for Pizz. Good, fruity deep sound. Old school!

 

[drurb]

With strings, YMMV seems to apply as much or more than with anything else. I, and apparently many others (see threads here at TB) have found the Belcantos to be entirely unsatisfactory for pizz. Of course, it depends upon the player, the bass, preferences, etc. but it does seem to be a pretty common evaluation.

 

[PRUNEFACE]

drurb, I actually like the strings for pizz for older stuff. The more modern stuff, I would agree, doesnt work so well. Too much "thump."