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A Good one for you all
- Thread starter iriegnome
- Start date
The real question is, was that tube bad?
The finest NOS Telefunken tub can go for over $100; if it doesn't work it's worth nothing.
Maybe he thought the JJ was weak, maybe the tube wasn't the issue at all, maybe you need to communicate with the guy on a professional level and ask the reasoning of his decisions.
The finest NOS Telefunken tub can go for over $100; if it doesn't work it's worth nothing.
Maybe he thought the JJ was weak, maybe the tube wasn't the issue at all, maybe you need to communicate with the guy on a professional level and ask the reasoning of his decisions.
I am nothing other than professional with my repair guy. When I questioned why there was anything other than the tube I put in my amp, he pulled my tube out from the drawer in his repair room and put it back into my amp.
If the tube was weak or shot, the repair guy knew my feelings about what specific tube I would only use. There was no question about it.
However, what happened is I almost lost my tube (IMHO) for a tube that I did not want. That is the only point I was fully making. There is no extra anything. And if the tube was truely bad, then he would have told me it needed to be replaced.
It is not unusal for any of the parts or pieces of any amp to go bad. No problems with that at all.
Oh and by the way, I talk to just about anyone who works on my gear for long periods of time over the course of weeks until they can get my repair in and start working on it so I can know this person who I am going to trust with my gear.
I am certainly glad that there are some out in TB land that will trust their gear to anyone at the local repair shop or facility (personally I only take my gear to people I know).
If the tube was weak or shot, the repair guy knew my feelings about what specific tube I would only use. There was no question about it.
However, what happened is I almost lost my tube (IMHO) for a tube that I did not want. That is the only point I was fully making. There is no extra anything. And if the tube was truely bad, then he would have told me it needed to be replaced.
It is not unusal for any of the parts or pieces of any amp to go bad. No problems with that at all.
Oh and by the way, I talk to just about anyone who works on my gear for long periods of time over the course of weeks until they can get my repair in and start working on it so I can know this person who I am going to trust with my gear.
I am certainly glad that there are some out in TB land that will trust their gear to anyone at the local repair shop or facility (personally I only take my gear to people I know).
BurningSkies
CRAZY BALDHEAD
- Feb 20, 2005
- 27,956
- 20,350
- Disclosures
- Endorsing artist: Dingwall Guitars
I'd agree with this. Having an amp guy that you can have a discussion with is important.
A few years ago I got my Fender Twin Reverb (135w 1970's) serviced. The guy is a familiar face, and someone who's done work off and on for me for nearly 3 decades. We had a discussion. What did I think needed to be done? I presented symptoms, problems I'd like fixed, other considerations, like the fact that I'd like it to be 'reliable' not only in terms of its operation but in terms of its tone, I wanted it to be returned to as 'usefully original as possible', etc.
Next, we discussed what HE thought needed to be done. Once we got through that 'list' I then asked him in his honest opinion was the estimated cost going to be a worthwhile investment. Or, is this amp worth what I'm putting in, will its tone and reliability be worth it and what I'm expecting.
Next up, a week and some bench time later, I got a call and visited. He went through an itemized list of what things needed to be done, what parts needed to be changed, how long that would take, etc. It was a full page, each 'operation' along with the parts and estimated cost. Once I agreed upon those things I also said that I'd like any parts like tubes or old pots kept for me, any resistors, capacitors he could dispose of.
Then I took the estimate given, mentally added 30% to the bottom line so I wouldn't be shocked by the end cost. This is something I've learned to do, no matter who the tech.
So, you expect to not be charged for time needed for consultation? If this guy has a real business, for the purpose of repairing equipment for people and in theory, make some kind of profit, don't waste their time playing 20 Questions. You need to gather and exchange information- that's undeniable- but be quick about it. He took time away from doing something else for his business and if you want his undivided attention, don't blather on for two hours about a $15 tube that you can't live without. That cost him two hours of bench time, so think about that next time you talk to ANYONE who bills at an hourly rate.
Did you consider the possibility that he put the EH in to check whether the JJ may have been bad and then got so many interruptions that he forgot he swapped it? Unending phone interruptions is a big reason some people are unavailable for a couple of hours at a time- THEY WANT TO GET SOME WORK DONE.
- May 9, 2008
- 4,081
- 1,236
- Disclosures
- Proprietor Springvale Studios
If this was about a decent Nos tube like a Telefunken, Mullard, RCA or GE.
I could understand what this thread was about but for a new production tube like a JJ it frankly beggars belief.
I just binned a JJ out of the V1 position in a peavey amp, because it was
excessively microphonic.
I could understand what this thread was about but for a new production tube like a JJ it frankly beggars belief.
I just binned a JJ out of the V1 position in a peavey amp, because it was
excessively microphonic.
Again, did you make that clear to the guy before he worked on it??? - if not, you really can't bitch about him changing it out - it's really that simple...
- georgestrings
Apparently the OP did. Yes he should have at least made a reason known for changing the tube. I always TRY to return still usable tubes to my customers unless they are excessively weak, dead or microphonic. Most don't want them back even though I try to make it clear that spares are a good thing to have on hand.
OK, I must have missed that... I suppose if it was discussed beforehand, then I could see the OP getting upset about something being done against his wishes... I will say that IMO/IME, one of those JJ tubes isn't anything special at all - and the tube choice in any single tube preamp doesn't usually make any earth shattering differences...
- georegstrings
BurningSkies
CRAZY BALDHEAD
- Feb 20, 2005
- 27,956
- 20,350
- Disclosures
- Endorsing artist: Dingwall Guitars
I would most certainly be annoyed if I had made clear that I wanted to retain that tube and it didn't make it back in one way or another. Also, I sometimes think that many techs use new tubes to 'pad out' their invoices while creating a back-log of tubes that they will then either use themselves or resell in future repairs.
I also agree that the token 12AX7 hybrid amp design is a fairly empty sales tactic.
Yep as I said I always try to force a still usable tube back to the customer. Don't have the interest in trying to keep used tubes sorted.
Am I understanding the situation corrently?
The OP is more upset over a $12 tube than he is that the amp failed immediately the first time he turned it on?
The OP is more upset over a $12 tube than he is that the amp failed immediately the first time he turned it on?
I'm not sure which is weirder in this thread, that particular position / set of priorities, or everyone's customer-is-always-wrong response.
I would definitely be more upset about the amp giving in so quickly, which absolutely indicates inadequate testing. I think you have a right to be incensed that the tech swapped the tube (if not the entire chassis with another customer's unit, let's hope not!) without saying something / handing the dead tube back to you in a bag.
But to me, given the speed of the repeated failure, it's all symptomatic of general carelessness with this particular repair. That can happen on a per-job basis, or it can happen more consistently.
I've had one of our area's most "respected" techs take one of my mint-condition amps apart, literally use it for a coffee table (based on the condition of tolex upon return) for over 18 months while he persistently refused to admit he had lost half of the amp necessary for reassembly, fixed nothing after he found the missing goods, and refused to return my $40 deposit (but at least was nice enough not to charge me extra for the relic job). As with auto mechanics, I've had far more techs screw me over than not, generally speaking. So I don't get the we-techs-are-all-good-cops-and-wouldjagettaloadathisguy attitude from some posters in thread.
I would definitely be more upset about the amp giving in so quickly, which absolutely indicates inadequate testing. I think you have a right to be incensed that the tech swapped the tube (if not the entire chassis with another customer's unit, let's hope not!) without saying something / handing the dead tube back to you in a bag.
But to me, given the speed of the repeated failure, it's all symptomatic of general carelessness with this particular repair. That can happen on a per-job basis, or it can happen more consistently.
I've had one of our area's most "respected" techs take one of my mint-condition amps apart, literally use it for a coffee table (based on the condition of tolex upon return) for over 18 months while he persistently refused to admit he had lost half of the amp necessary for reassembly, fixed nothing after he found the missing goods, and refused to return my $40 deposit (but at least was nice enough not to charge me extra for the relic job). As with auto mechanics, I've had far more techs screw me over than not, generally speaking. So I don't get the we-techs-are-all-good-cops-and-wouldjagettaloadathisguy attitude from some posters in thread.
Simple, it is some customer's attitudes that have chased the good responsible techs away from the business. Just like good auto techs that starve while working on per job basis while the crooks do nothing and collect better paychecks. If you don't at least get some respect from the customer the lousy paycheck no longer covers the feeling of doing good, proper work.
Now hold on, I gave the tech all the respect he was due. We talked and I felt comfortable to bring my gear to him to repair. There was no judgement about it failing other than it failed. No harsh words to the tech about the failure, no words exchanged about lack of testing. Only thing that was brought to the techs attention upon my return after he opened the amp back up was that the tube was changed without my knowledge or permission. I was very specific about it. He changed it back to my tube (again without explaination). If my tube was bad, I 100% would have expected - "Hey your tube is bad, what do you want me to do?" Either I decide to change it with what he had available or get him what I specifically want. That is no big deal at all either. Still my choice with his repair opinion and expertise. However, it was done in a shady fashion. Tube was changed to something I would not use without my knowledge and most on this thread jump on me for being a pain in the ass customer. If knowing what I want makes me a jerk, oh well.
Also, finding a trusting working relationship with an amp repair person, IMHO, is just as important as finding a trustworthy Luthier to work on my bass or a Doctor to operate on my foot. All equally important for what they do and all equally important to be able to trust the person you are working with. Without that trust, there is no return visit.
