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A little upset right now

You seem to already be cognizant of the fact that the "angry stoners" you know would also be angry if they were straight. I will add that they might possibly be even angrier when they are straight. Some people just have chip on their shoulder. Some of them take valium, some smoke weed to take the edge off. Counseling might be a better approach, but if weed keeps them from going postal in the meantime, it might not be such a bad thing.
The biggest danger one generally faces when dealing with someone who smokes is getting caught up in a conversation that has no end or apparent direction.

nope. it exacerbates the problem, magnifies even. I figured posting that would attract a lot of "that cant possibly be the case" like i said if you wanna meet them let me know. some of them are the nicest people i know sober.
 
yeah i kinda touched on that later in the post i made. frankly i just dont buy all of it. if a pro marijuana organization is writing your check then hell yeah ur study is gonna say its good. its the global warming debate all over again.

cuz heck, we might as well beat on that dead horse while we're at it.

arggghh the bane of my existence is the things people "learn" on television...

pertinent to this case the worthless piece of crap was in a mental ward of the prison when first arrested and everyone thought he was going to get out of prison by going for insanity.. and I had a rough time convincing them it does not work like you saw on law and order "on you're crazy? we're sorry let us take those handcuffs off and lead you out the courtroom to your freedom"

I'll take your TV generation and raise ya the internet. ;)

Being more science oriented, I find that the general public wants the quickest source of info and might even prefer that it's slanted towards their political agenda. It's very unfortunate that this gets ratings, which perpetuates the cycle.

Being able to plead down a sentence due to insanity is something that has always perplexed me. I only deal with a small segment of psychiatric patients, but I question the thought process given the high amount of relapse in schizophrenia type patients. Given that the committed a crime and theoretically would have a high chance of relapse, one would assume that release from a penal system would only be to a high security psychiatric setting. Ok, that's probably similar to prison, but they have already PROVEN that they're a danger to society.
 
Other than throwing money at the problem, how exactly would you propose we catch violent criminals? Honest question, but I hope you understand the logistics.

I've seen "lack of manpower" cited as reason for inability to find evidence to convict. Transfer some of vice cops to violent crimes, so they can sift through potential leads. The "fine tooth comb" approach is tedious, unglamorous, and not nearly as fun or exciting as vice, but often produces results. It took years of diligent work by citizens and private dicks to bring a case against James Williams for the murders of his wife and Walter Scott when the local cops were going to bury it and the coroner had written her death off as an auto accident. Read the book "The Cheater: The Murder of Walter Scott" and you will see how easy the case could have been, and how many times law enforcement dropped the ball. How did a woman, five foot four drive a car with the seat pushed all the way back and her feet could not have reached the pedals (James was over six and half feet tall)? How did a bowling ball left in the back seat somehow fly forward and cave in her skull, yet the crease in her skull was more consistent with a fireplace poker? How did her body get so soaked in gasoline that her skin sloughed off in the coroners examining room, yet the fire was attributed to an engine fire? The investigation of her death was a comedy of errors, and though Walter's case was tougher, solving her murder would have led the authorities to Walter's murderer as well.
 
Sometimes, true, but more than often not the case.
Most of the pot on the East Coast comes from Northern California. ;)



Nah, just a bunch of stoners in the Emerald Triangle. And some stoners from the East driving in to pick it up. They must leave the AKs at home...

As long as the AKs are left home and I don't have to read bogus medical studies ;), I have no problem with it other than the nation being unhealthy with the already available vices.
 
As long as the AKs are left home and I don't have to read bogus medical studies ;), I have no problem with it other than the nation being unhealthy with the already available vices.

Yeah, no AKs. That'll only add time if one were to get caught.
Not all stoners are unhealthy, either. We eat, like granola, and fresh veggies, and then go rock climbing on acid. Or maybe thats just me...
 
I've seen "lack of manpower" cited as reason for inability to find evidence to convict. Transfer some of vice cops to violent crimes, so they can sift through potential leads. The "fine tooth comb" approach is tedious, unglamorous, and not nearly as fun or exciting as vice, but often produces results. It took years of diligent work by citizens and private dicks to bring a case against James Williams for the murders of his wife and Walter Scott when the local cops were going to bury it and the coroner had written her death off an accident. Read the book "The Cheater: The Murder of Walter Scott" and you will see how easy the case could have been, and how many times law enforcement dropped the ball. How did a woman, five foot four drive a car with the seat pushed all the way back and her feet could not have reached the pedals (James was over six and half feet tall)? How did a bowling ball left in the back seat somehow fly forward and cave in her skull, yet the crease in her skull was more consistent with a fireplace poker? How did her body get so soaked in gasoline that her skin sloughed off in the coroners examining room, yet the fire was attributed to an engine fire?

Sensationalist stories aside, ya gotta look at the logistics.

Locally, we have a bad part of town where ~99% of shootings take place, almost entirely gang related. Our local law enforcement focuses almost all manpower in that part of town and we still don't catch them most of the time. Unless you have police standing on every corner, it's extremely difficult to catch a guy because they don't exactly stay put. Sometimes law enforcement gets lucky, but most simply escape and evade. You might get some shell casings. They may or may not have fingerprints. If there are fingerprints, the guy probably isn't already in the system. Tracing a bullet to particular guns isn't as easy as CSI makes it seem.

Drug busts are often on a stationary location. Word also gets around. This is often key difference between drug dealers and murders. ;)
 
Yeah, no AKs. That'll only add time if one were to get caught.
Not all stoners are unhealthy, either. We eat, like granola, and fresh veggies, and then go rock climbing on acid. Or maybe thats just me...

I'm not saying that stoners are all unhealthy, rather the general public is fairly unhealthy as a whole. If they were, my job security would be gone! :p
 
nope. it exacerbates the problem, magnifies even. I figured posting that would attract a lot of "that cant possibly be the case" like i said if you wanna meet them let me know. some of them are the nicest people i know sober.

Well, it takes all kinds of people to make this world, and I'm not disputing your experience. But I've known some who were much nicer when they had their smoke.
Now I've seen some Jekyll and Hyde type drinkers who could hold their own conversing with college professors sober and turn into blathering a-holes when drunk.
 
Well, it takes all kinds of people to make this world, and I'm not disputing your experience. But I've known some who were much nicer when they had their smoke.
Now I've seen some Jekyll and Hyde type drinkers who could hold their own conversing with college professors sober and turn into blathering a-holes when drunk.

Even though prohibition proved it didn't help society, I'm not against imposing laws that prohibiting certain individuals from being allowed to consume alcohol.

Too bad my area can't seem to get a handle on drunk driving. My simplest thought would be that ALL 2 time offenders get the breath-a-lock on their cars for life. Folks that continue to drive drunk without a license should be locked up.
 
Too bad my area can't seem to get a handle on drunk driving. My simplest thought would be that ALL 2 time offenders get the breath-a-lock on their cars for life. Folks that continue to drive drunk without a license should be locked up.

First time DUI offenders in LA county are required to have the ignition interlock on their car for a minimum of 5 months.
A second affense, I believe, will get you 12 months.
I know a guy who does have to have it permanently installed on his car. Im not sure how many DUIs he's had.

I'm not saying that stoners are all unhealthy, rather the general public is fairly unhealthy as a whole. If they were, my job security would be gone! :p

Good thing for you that, as hard as "they" push (whomever they are), 'mericans aint changin anytime soon. Job security, indeed!
 
Sensationalist stories aside, ya gotta look at the logistics.

This was more than a "sensationalist" headline to me. I grew up listening to Walter with Bob Kuban's band, and later played in bands with some of his bandmates. His killer walked into a club I was playing at, and the guitar player pointed him out to me, "There's the motherf####er who killed Walter". Ray had worked with Walter. It was a tense gig to say the least.

Everybody knew James Williams killed his wife and Walter so he could be with Walter's wife, but the law was not looking into it until private investigators and Walter's family demanded an exhumation of Mrs Williams' body. It took a court order. When they finally arrested him, the news broke while I was playing again at the same club. We were on break and our singer pointed to the television. The photo they showed of Walter was one taken of a "Bob Kuban and the In Men Reunion" rehearsal at the same club we were in, with our band's banner in the background.

When Walter's body was finally found, the guys who pulled his body from the cistern were patrons at a tavern I hung out at, I played pool with these guys. I got a very graphic description of the condition of his body.

So this is no anecdote, statistic or sensationalist headline to me. It was my personal experience with how a murder was handled in my community while the cops were chasing down pot smokers.

kuband83b.JPG

Yes, I was working with Marcel and we were playing our regular gig there when the news broke. We saw it on TV during our break. The sax player taught at my school and is a neighbor of mine still. The guitarist with the Les Paul worked with us at the Saturday jam.
 
First time DUI offenders in LA county are required to have the ignition interlock on their car for a minimum of 5 months.
A second affense, I believe, will get you 12 months.
I know a guy who does have to have it permanently installed on his car. Im not sure how many DUIs he's had.

I'm not 100% on specific local laws, but I assume part of the punishment depends on how drunk, injuries, and number of offenses. I don't think the interlock is required. I think it can be used to plea down the sentences. There are also programs that one can use to also plea down the sentence (but they cost $$$$$$$$). I know of one where you have to not touch a drink at any time and are obligated to pass a sobriety test at a moment's notice.

That being said, we still have a lot of multiple DUI cases in the news.

Good thing for you that, as hard as "they" push (whomever they are), 'mericans aint changin anytime soon. Job security, indeed!

Shoot, can't find the 'merican meme, "So I told the teacher lady that the only letters I need to know are U S A" :atoz:
 
This was more than a "sensationalist" headline to me. I grew up listening to Walter with Bob Kuban's band, and later played in bands with some of his bandmates. His killer walked into a club I was playing at, and the guitar player pointed him out to me, "There's the motherf####er who killed Walter". Ray had worked with Walter. It was a tense gig to say the least.

Everybody knew James Williams killed his wife and Walter so he could be with Walter's wife, but the law was not looking into it until private investigators and Walter's family demanded an exhumation of Mrs Williams' body. It took a court order. When they finally arrested him, the news broke while I was playing again at the same club. We were on break and our singer pointed to the television. The photo they showed of Walter was one taken of a "Bob Kuban and the In Men Reunion" rehearsal at the same club we were in, with our band's banner in the background.

When Walter's body was finally found, the guys who pulled his body from the cistern were patrons at a tavern I hung out at, I played pool with these guys. I got a very graphic description of the condition of his body.

So this is no anecdote, statistic or sensationalist headline to me. It was my personal experience with how a murder was handled in my community while the cops were chasing down pot smokers.

kuband83b.jpg


Yes, I was working with Marcel and we were playing our regular gig there when the news broke. We saw it on TV during our break. The sax player taught at my school and is a neighbor of mine still. The guitarist with the Les Paul worked with us at the Saturday jam.

That's very unfortunate they did nothing. My friends in law enforcement claim that they'd love it if they could get decent leads. With the gang shootings, both sides hate the cops more than the rival gangs. I find that it defies logic, but they choose not to help the police.

Outside of the gang shootings, most successful murders keep all that stuff to themselves. :atoz:
 
That's very unfortunate they did nothing. My friends in law enforcement claim that they'd love it if they could get decent leads. With the gang shootings, both sides hate the cops more than the rival gangs. I find that it defies logic, but they choose not to help the police.

Outside of the gang shootings, most successful murders keep all that stuff to themselves. :atoz:


They had plenty of leads in this case, but chose to ignore them. Read the book, there are too many to detail here. But the coroner who examined Ms Williams had second thoughts after her initial exam and called the St Charles cop in charge of the investigation to express her doubts about the auto accident scenario. She was put on hold, hung up on and otherwise ignored. She eventually gave up. They ignored the fact that a woman, 5'4" was found dead in a full size car with the drivers seat pushed all the way back and her husband was over 6'6". He doused her in gas and attempted to burn her up, but the fire was extinguished. She was in a coma for days before she died. The gas did cause her skin to slough off. The back of her head was caved in. When that didn't match the accident scenario, they presumed a bowling ball in the car had flown forward and done the damage, but there was a crease in her skull that was later matched to a fireplace poker. Walter vanished shortly after Mrs William's death. Everyone close to these people knew JW was having an affair with Walter's wife, they wanted to be together, and neither of their spouses would agree to a divorce. This was not an unsolvable case. If not for the perseverance of Walter's family and some good detective work by a PI, two murders would have been swept under the rug. It took four years for them to crack the case. I am just giving you brief synopsis. The book has 200 pages of police bungling and apathy.
 

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