A Musician's Responsibility

[bassbully]

Awsome! I think he did the right thing and was only trying to explain his actions to the rest of the class...whats wrong with that? My wife is a teacher and i did a bit myself in my job and its tuff. A student needs to be prepared and ready for class. An example was made and a good teacher does that.

 

[DudeistMonk]

I'm no music major (I took one music theory class in college) but I know enough to know that music a field where the best make it and the rest work at CD-world. If you aren't gonna put the time in then you might as well switch majors now. I find problem with kicking out a student to a point across as long as it wasn't a one time thing (like if I came in 1 day unprepared after being prepared most every other lesson).

As for the speech, inspiring yes...pretentious most certainly. As someone else pointed out above, a business major could change the world, so could a poly sci major, or a med student.

I think the guy was just tired of burn out wannabe's with no dedication and had the opportunity to go on a power trip in a profession where everything you do is passive.

 

[Jazzdogg]

The kid he kicked out had a real attitude, and dressed all "thug" like all the time, trust me, he wasn't an aspiring musician... I am not even sure how he got in in the first place.

I don't think my teacher is really an ass, he warned us at the beginning of the semester he would be a bastard if he needed to be, but hes actually a very nice man and a really great teacher. His name is Gerald Lloyd.

Here is his bio

Bachelor of Music, College-Conservatory of Music, University of Cincinnati, piano performance; Master of Music, College-Conservatory of Music, University of Cincinnati, composition; Doctor of Philosophy, Eastman School of Music, composition

Professor Lloyd has combined teaching with an extensive career in music and fine arts administration. His appointmenst have included positiosn as assistant dean, College of Fine Arts, Drake University; dean, Conservatory of Music, Capital University; director, School of Music, Ohio University; and dean, College of Fine Arts, UML.

With extensive experience in music curriculum development, he has served as a consultant on curricular issues at various institutions in the U.S. Professor Lloyd, elected to two, three-year terms as a member of the Commission on Accreditation of the National Association of Schools of Music (NASM), also served NASM as chairperson of numerous visiting evaluating teams. LLoyd's compositions have been performed by the Eastman-Rochester, Detroit, Kalamazoo and Syracuse symphony orchestras, as well as by the Rockefeller Foundation sponsored readings for the Contemporary Music Ensemble and Houston Symphony Orchestra. His compositions for chamber and solo works have been performed throughout the U.S., including at Georgia State University; Fargo, North Dakota; the University of Colorado; and others.

Part of why I find this all so interesting is because I knew some people would find it to be harsh and pretentious, and I made this thread partly for that reason. I am very interested to hear what you all think about it! He is certainly a music teacher I won't forget though. Thanks for sharing your opinions!

I've had several professors with comparable credentials. Some were highly competent musicians who gigged frequently in a variety of musical settings and could inspire students musically and intellectually, while others had rested on their academic laurels and played so seldom (or so poorly) that they had become windbags who were incapable of inspiring others musically.

I hope your professor is in the former camp, but his behavior sounds more allied with the latter from what you've said so far.

 

[davec]

haha yea I think he might just have been in a rotten mood with the whole "the world sucks" thing, but that adding beauty concept is precisely what struck me so much.

My guess is that he looked at his 401k

I remember several teachers I had telling students. If you don't want to be here.... don't

Let him know that his words made an impact for you

 

[kesslari]

I'm of the opinion that he did a good job.

He's a college professor - his goal is to not only have you learn things, but to make you think.

Based on your post, he did precisely that.

 

[NJL]

Do musicians make an impact? .. remember the song "We are the World".. Live Aid, Farm Aid, ... The list goes on...

yes i remember it clearly:

 

[bassbrad]

I find myself in agreement with your theory instructor and I also agree with his methods. I'm sure to some of your classmates & generation his methods may seem harsh, welcome to the real world with a life lesson wake up call.
Music is the joy in my life but as a working musician and band leader I am very serious about 'business'. Music is also a team effort and any group is only as strong as it's weakest link. One of the things that takes the fun out of it is having to put up with the less than professional attitude that many younger and sometimes not, musicians have. When I was getting my stripes as a musician if you showed up unprepared not only would you get fired on the spot, very often in quite harsh ways, but you also would not get a second chance, life lessons I learned the hard way.

 

[caeman]

I would agree that music is a gift. For me, I view my music as a gift from God and worship of Him. Though I started in school band, my music did not flourish until sat down at the drum set at church when I was 15. I have been playing music in church ever since. And now I am playing bass, as well. Not much of a place for a harmonica in a Jewish synagogue, though.

 

[Eilif]

Wow, admittedly, some of his speach is pretty pretentions, but I applaud his use of a very powerfull object lesson to try and inspire some responsibility in his students.

A teacher kicks a couple of kids out of one class (he didn't say the whole course) and allot of you want to jump down his throat.

An example.
My wife is in school for her masters in pathology. She is taking alot of courses with medical students, and comparing the masters program students to the med student is quite eye opening. In class the med students come in late, talk durring class, make no effort to be non-disruptive, and in general behave like teenagers. The masters students cant figure out why the professors let them get away with it. Maybe the profs have given up trying to control them, maybe the profs think that med students are the salt of the earth and should feel superior.

Whatever the case, it makes me sick. There are hundreds of students (my wife included) who would like to be in med school, and these kids are treating it with the utmost disrespect.

Whether or not a student is "paying a teachers salary", recieving higher education is a gift, and a responsibility. It is not an entitlement to be taken lightly. It's a hard line, but those who aren't there to take advantage of the education should be removed to make room, and improve the environment, for those who do. A bit of tough love, might help those more complacent to get their act together, and if they don't, out they go.

I should point out that the other reason I am so passionate about this kind of thing is that I am someone who squandered the chance I had as a youth to study with a great musician. In my case, it was a few years that I took lessons from double bassist Warren Benfield. Looking back, I did learn a good deal just by being around him, but I essentially wasted the chance to learn the other 90% of what I could have if I had applied myself. I wish I had applied myself more, and that my famliy had demanded more in that situation.

 

[BishopM05]

I don't agree that it's a muscian's responsibility to change the world with music. To me, a musician's purpose is to entertain people - to put on a show. That's why I like it anyways...If by doing that changes the world in some way, then so be it. On that note, I agree that he should have the option of kicking anyone he sees unfit for class in order to teach a lesson on being prepared. That's what being a student is all about!

 

[MatticusMania]

I'm a musician because I want to make a positive impact on the world, by getting chicks.

Haha, exactly.

Me being awesome > getting chicks > making awesome little me's to better the future.

See, it works!

 

[tycobb73]

The only people I owe anything to are my family. If I have a gift for music and don't want to play it, that is my right.

And, I actually like music that points out issues in our culture, like Young, SOAD, Rage, Metallica. To me happy party music only have value on weekend nights in the bar.

 

[Chebass88]

+1 to the professor for proper classroom management. They are merely wasting resources, and should be removed. If they really wanted to succeed, they would have been prepared for the lesson, as requested. This is just a great example of separating the wheat from the chaff. It will happen in the so-called 'real world' anyway, so why not begin at the university level? If you can't succeed, either try again or get out. Don't waste the precious time of others.

In most graduate-level engineering programs, if you get a C or less, you are booted from the program. End message - you are unfit to continue as a graduate engineering student. Why should it be any different when learning how to compose SATB voicings in music theory class? My education costs WAY too much to be destroyed by unprepared idiots. If you mess with my ability to listen & get the most out of it, if the professor doesn't say anything, you can bet I will, as a student.

The onus of responsibility for proving the world doesn't "suck" or to "generate happiness" is inevitably on the end user, i.e., the listener. So what happens if I play music with depressing lyrics - am I now at fault for depressing the listener? Does this mean I can only play saccharine music all the time? If I sing about the bankruptcy of financial institutions, the loss of loved ones through war, the slow death by cancer, or getting in a huge car accident on the highway, how does this show anyone how the "world is better"?

I think I understand your professor's point of view. He is trying to inspire you to be the best musicians you can be, and to take it seriously. This is the same thing that we learned in the chemical engineering department when we were taught we were the best around & could solve any problem, with high starting salaries, etc. Were they right? Not completely, but it helped to motivate us & take it a little more seriously.

Perhaps a better example of his point would have been the scene from Shawshank Redemption when Andy DuFresne locks himself in the warden's office and plays classical music over the loudspeaker system, to be compared with the violence of the guards when they break in to make him secured.

imp.

 

[stratovani]

I find myself in agreement with your theory instructor and I also agree with his methods. I'm sure to some of your classmates & generation his methods may seem harsh, welcome to the real world with a life lesson wake up call.
Music is the joy in my life but as a working musician and band leader I am very serious about 'business'. Music is also a team effort and any group is only as strong as it's weakest link. One of the things that takes the fun out of it is having to put up with the less than professional attitude that many younger and sometimes not, musicians have. When I was getting my stripes as a musician if you showed up unprepared not only would you get fired on the spot, very often in quite harsh ways, but you also would not get a second chance, life lessons I learned the hard way.

I agree 100%. Professor Lloyd is a pro. If you're not prepared for his class (or any other for that matter) then he's completely within his rights to do as he sees fit. That's the way of the world, kiddies. If I'm not ready to do my job when I get to work then my boss will deal with me as he sees fit, which could mean an immediate dismissal. He's actually doing his students all a favor, trying to prepare them for the real world.

 

[willgroove2]

Many years ago I studied with jazz guitarist Bobby Broom(www.bobbybroom.com)I was going to American conservatory of music in Chicago and at the beginning of my second yr my bass teacher left and I was given the option of studying with Broom.I figured hell yeah because not only had he worked with Sonny Rollins but he had just got through playing with Miles Davis and he was only a few years older than I was.;Broom kicked my a** every lesson.He held me responsible for working on the stuff we were doing and if I hadn't done the work? lesson was over.This was one of the best things that ever happened to me in my musical life because it taught me responsibility and discipline.I look at it this way,this guy was and still is working with Icons and didn't have time to waste with people who don't have it within themselves to do the work and this was the same way it is in the real world.I also worked with Broom as a sideman and he was much the same way as a bandleader;Bring it strong or don't bring it.There are musicians who take music very seriously and there are those that don't if you don't and run into someone who does they can come off as harsh or mean but their level of commitment might just be greater than yours is at the moment

 

[nsmar4211]

Hey, if the kid(s) who were unprepared really want to be in the class, I'm sure that if they came to him and asked to be let back in that he'd say yes. However, if it's just a "fluff" class in an attempt to pad a transcript, boot em.

Speech or no, it is the teacher's classroom. Reminds me of my English 1100 teacher.....
We started the semester with 40 in the class. She tells us that since we are in college, she expects college level writing-proper format, proper punctuation, proper grammar, etc. She also tells us her grading scale is weighted towards the end of the semester-i.e. the essays at the beginning don't count as much as the end. (The final essay was 40% of the grade). Fast forward to the first paper...... we all get our papers back and they are *covered* in red ink. Every missed comma, every run on sentence, is all marked. She also wrote notes in the margins for every mistake.....it must have taken her hours to grade those. I'm a good writer, but not as good as I thought...... she tells us to redo the papers and fix the mistakes and she will keep the revision grade as our grade. Next class, we were down to 25 students. Every essay, same thing. By the end of the semester we had 12 students left! But guess what? Of the 12 of us that sucked it up and improved our writing, we had 2 D's, 3 C's, 3 b's, and 1 A. The d's were because of attendance, so really everyone was graded completly fairly. I talked to some of the students that dropped after the semester...... they said they couldn't handle getting their "hard work" back covered in red ink. My thought? This is school.....in the real world there are no do over's, and the red ink is from your bank account!!

I wish there were more teachers like her (and like the OP's) to weed out the people who didn't want to put forth the effort.
Sometimes it takes getting that paper back covered in red ink or getting booted out of a classroom to make people wake up and realize there's no free rides and you aren't as good as you think you are.

And if his speech inspired you.... then it did what it was supposed to. Passion is usually a good thing .

 

[Rypher]

I agree, thank you for sharing.

 

[The Golden Boy]

I completely agree with the instructor's expectation that students act responsibly and arrive prepared, and that there be consequences if they don't. From that point forward, however, I must disagree with his actions and his statements.

First of all, he's correct (IMO) to treat students as adults and to expect adult-like behavior from them; but he has to be realistic in his expectations, as well as the consequences he administers. Some students are going to fall short some of the time. Unless he's a brand new teacher, he knows that and should be better prepared to address it with a minimum of class interruption. Pompous drama is unnecessary, disrupting and unproductive.

Students aren't all motivated by, nor do they all respond to, the same stimuli. Public embarassment and dismissal undoubtedly worked to straighten up some of the students he castigated, at least temporarily; but I'll bet it simply made others decide, if they have the option, to drop his class or at least resolve never to take another class from him.

It's his job as a teacher to try to motivate and direct students in different ways, to reach as many of those who paid to receive his services as he can. I never favor coddling students or compromising achievement standards; but I also know--as do most experienced supervisors and teachers --that in the long run, public praise works only some of the time and public reprimand, particularly if it includes ridicule, virtually never works. If he'd taken the time to meet with the offending students outside class to discuss/convey the consequences of their lack of preparedness, preferably privately and separately, I think he could have been far more effective--assuming his goal is to teach, rather than to preach.

And I agree with him that an aptitude for music is a gift, a great gift that is accompanied by a responsibility. But that responsibility extends to ourselves, to those who gave us or loaned us money to attend his classes and, perhaps, to our families and friends. It's not a responsibility to change the world. Whether he likes it or not, each of us is responsible for cultural improvement and that includes everyone: doctors, lawyers, homemakers, clergymen, carpenters, mechanics, etc.--even politicians, not just artists. It's a responsibility that arises from being a human being and a member of society, not from selecting a particular occupation or avocation. It was self-righteous and inappropriate for him to pontificate to your class and suggest that he had some divine insight into the salvation of mankind.

I do appreciate your sharing it, though. It confirms my belief that I was right to avoid some of the self-important, stuffed shirt professors that I managed to avoid when I was a music theory major.

Good luck to you.

Bluesy Soul

Agreed completely.

 

[JohnnyPustular]

I've been teaching in major universities (Big Ten) for 20 years. When I was a young prof, I thought it was my responsibility to motivate students. As a result, I ended up teaching to the bottom 20% of the class-- those who didn't exert enough effort to open a book. After a while, I ran into this quote from China's greatest teacher:

"I will not teach a man who is not anxious to learn, and will not explain to one who is not trying to make things clear to himself. And if I explain one fourth and the man does not go back and think of the implications of the other three fourths for himself, I will not teach him again." -- Confucius

I believe that Confucius is correct-- you cannot pour knowledge into a closed mind. As a result, I now spend my energies on those who want to learn. Come to class, do the readings, try your best on assignments, show up for office hours and I will put in as much time as it takes to help you grasp the material.

In the university, students are responsible for their own learning. Professors are responsible for organizing the body of knowledge in a coherent and complete manner, knowing the material in great enough detail so that they can express it to students in a number of different ways (for different learners), and holding all students to the same standard on activities for which they will be graded (if it were up to me, I would eliminate grading as it has nothing to do with learning and everything to do with sorting students for industry).

I choose to make the material as engaging as I can by using popular culture references, personal stories, historical perspectives, etc., but even if your prof is a stuffed-shirt, self-important, boring, poor rhetor, you are still responsible for your own learning. Remember, you only harm yourself when you do not extract all you can from your teachers. We already know the stuff and have jobs.

A university is the only business I know of where people regularly pay thousands of dollars for a product they choose not to use (e.g., go to class, do the reading, engage the assignments, etc.)!