A question for EBS Fafner users

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by vdbroek81, Dec 19, 2003.

  1. I have a question for fellow EBS Fafner users.

    ABout 4 weeks ago I bought a EBS Fafner (TD600) and EBS410 stack.
    I have a question about the maximum power.

    When the filter is in bypass mode (or the filter set 'flat') the maximum power is disapointing. 100W max I would say. The gain knob is then about half way and the volume fully open. The machine sounds ok and everything seems to work fine.

    Only with the filter and the drive knob halfway opened it sounds a more promissing.

    My question is if this is the way it is designed.

    Ofcourse it could be that I expected to much of a 360W RMS (4ohm) amp.

    I hope someone can give me a reply.

  2. I think there may be an impedance mismatch between the preamp and the input of the power section--I had a similar issue on my (first-run) Fafner unless I put in a little bit of drive. I barely even had to open up the Drive control to get an enormous volume boost.
  3. inazone


    Apr 20, 2003
    my td 650 is the same way. my guess is the eq gives it a big boost when it is on. same with the drive.
  4. submelodic


    Feb 7, 2002
    Seattle, WA
    I have an earlier version, but my experience is the same. The manual says the drive stage can increase the gain by up to 30dB.
  5. Thanks all for your reply!!!

    As long as the amp gives the power Im ok with it. But I think the use of that bypass button is silly.
    To get the required power I open the Drive knob about 25%

    Anyway, I realy love my Fafner!

    Because Im quite new to this machine, are there any hints/tips or nice to know's from experienced Fafner users?

    Thanks again.
  6. The SS preamp drives the 12AX7 tube which then drives the SS power section. I suspect that when the preamp tone controls are bypassed and the drive is set at zero the drop in volume may be due to the way the 12AX7 is being driven, or perhaps some voltage characteristic of the tube itself. I am certain this side effect is "by design" and not a problem with your Fafner.

    I checked this on my blue stripe (recent) Fafner, and although there certainly is a drop, it doesn't seem quite as significant as described. I'm driving a 2 Ohm load, so there's PLENTY of power.
  7. Oddio, thanks for your reply. You are right.

  8. I'm guessing here... that the "bypass" was only included to provide a "flat" reference point. Of course, as you "drive" the 12AX7 it is going to begin to characteristically colour the sound.

    Interesting (& useful) review Maarten... thanks for the details. I'm truly impressed with how stable the Fafner is at 2 ohms. It runs happily all night without generating a lot of heat.
  9. RAM


    May 10, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    I usually keep my drive set between 25% and 35%, depending on the sound I'm after. It's not a huge amount of gain: subtle, but noticeable. Welcome to the club!

    I'm really a big fan of mine!:D

    For me, I tend to boost the lows to about one notch beyond neutral, the same with the mids. Depending on which bass I'm using, either the Jerzy or the Spector, I'll choose the mid frequency around 300 Hz for the Jerzy or 400 Hz for the Spector. The treble I set at 2 for the Jerzy and -2 for the Spector.

    I'm a fingerstyle player, exclusively, so I like the mid-grind I get from this eq. It's really a powerful eq section, so there's really nothing you couldn't achieve.

    Again, welcome!
  10. Hi Ram, thanks. Yesterday I played with my band and was able to experiment a bit more with the Fafner.
    The sound is realy excelent! And that is what I love about this EBS stuff. Also it is incredible nice built.
    The worries I had (and still have I must say) are about the power of the amp. The musicstyle I play is Soul/funk.

    Before I bought this RIG I played on a Peavey TNT130 Combo. 130Watt RMS and blowing like a storm. But no headroom and therefor not suitable for bigger gig's... and ofcourse I wanted a more funky, HIFI sound which EBS gives.

    The settings I use on the fafner are: (With an active Yamaha TRB5P Bass) The numbers are the number of dashes clockwise.

    Gain: 7 (about 3/4)
    Bright: 5
    LO: OFF
    BASS: 6
    MIDDLE: 4
    MID FREQ: 6
    HI: ON
    HIGH: 7
    DRIVE: 1½

    The thing is that I have to increase the drive (5-6) to get the desired power but then I also will get a more distorted tube sound.

    Because on the internet I only read about the incredible power the Fafner has I wondered if there is maybe something wrong with it.

    Well a long story hope for a reply anyway.
  11. RAM


    May 10, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    IME, the Fafner has plenty of power through an EBS 4x10. I don't know why you're not getting enough power.

    Some other questions I'd consider:
    1. Is the input gain LED indicating the proper input level? If you get a little flashing of the LED when you play your hardest, then the input level is good.
    2. What is the volume set at?
    3. How loud are the other instruments you're trying to blend in with?
    4. Is there a problem with a transformer or something else?

    I find I have plenty of power with the gain about 9 o'clock to 10 o'clock (about 3 or 4). The sound has a touch of gain at that level, which I'm okay with. If you're not, you need to look at other options, such as getting another cabinet to run the Fafner at 2 ohms, or get a different amp.

    Sorry I can't offer more advice.
  12. steve-o

    steve-o Guest

    Apr 17, 2002
    maybe try a differnt tube that doesn't distort as easy

    mine should be here soon..like next week..i can't wait

  13. *Scratches head* Hmmm. I am using my Fafner to drive a pair of Acmes. Granted it's a two ohm load, but these are Acmes... not super-efficient. You should have lots of power there.

    Check the battery in your bass (if it has one) and get that input LED flashing a little bit when you play. Then try using various style settings from the manual. Perhaps you could test with a second cab. Essentially, ditto on everything RAM said.
  14. Again thanks for your replies!

    I play in a not very loud band and the musicstyle is 80's. (Soul/Funk/Pop etc)

    I adjust the input level to the level the led starts to flash. The battery in my bass is new.
    When the drive is at zero and the eq. is adjusted like described above, the power at a maximum volume (11!) is not realy blowing. Let say disapointing. And this was something I didnt check when i tried the amp (I trusted on the power specifications)

    Therefore my question was if I always have to use the drive to get the power. But you understand that for funk I don't want a to distorted sound.
    When the filter is in bypass and the drive at zero, the maximum power is realy very low. (as said Im using one EBS410 4ohm)

    Ofcourse difficult to explain via the web but thanks for all the help. I think I will go back to my dealer next week to have a 2nd opinion.

    Steve-o, I am curious about your opinion. Please let me know.

    Bye all and from the netherlands a nice christmas!
  15. Sorry to hear that things aren't shaping up for you the way that you expected, and I hope that all goes well with the dealer.

    For reference, I get a good level and clean undistorted tone, albeit smooth and all-tube sounding, with the following:

    gain @ 12:00 o'clock
    volume @ 2:00 o'clock
    drive at 8:00 or 9:00 o'clock
    tone set to suit
    a little compression sometimes

    Lots of power and headroom.
  16. RAM


    May 10, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    I was playing a few minutes ago with the drive on 4 and the master volume on 3/4 to 7/8. I then turned the drive all the way down to 0 to see what the approximate volume is I'd need to compensate with, and I had to turn the volume all the way up to 1.:cool:

    Obviously, there's supposed to be some volume difference, as I believe the Fafner was truly designed with the tube sound in mind. However, what you're experiencing tells me there's something wrong with your amp. I'd take it to a tech to inspect.

    You may first consider contacting EBS and tell them of your experiences. They might have something enlightening to say...
  17. RAM, thanks! this is exactly what my question was about!! (I asume you ment
    and I had to turn the volume all the way up to 11.)

    So to compensate the 'reducement of drive' I have to increase the volume by 25%. Exactly as you describe.

    The lost couple of days I played a lot with the Fafner and am now much more acquainted with the AMP. (and still do like it very much!)

    Still I have asked EBS for some info about this.

    WIll let you know.
  18. RAM


    May 10, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    Actually, I meant that I had to turn it all the way up to one, not eleven.

    I was trying to say that, for me, I'm not experiencing a huge difference in volume between using the drive control, and not using the drive control. There is clearly some difference, perhaps a 10% volume loss without the drive control, but not so much I'm experiencing the same problems as you. That's why I think there's a problem with your amp, not Fafners in general.

    Keep us informed!

    BTW: On older models, I know EBS was experiencing problems with their power switch, as was confirmed by Mott, the guy who designed and built the Fafner. It was fixed in the last version, however. To my knowledge, that was the only problem Fafners had, at least across-the-board.
  19. hum...Sorry, this must be my bad english. It is getting a bit confusing because now I understand you experience the opposite:
    Decreasing the drive down to zero, increases the volume so to have the same level you decrease the master to 1. ??????

    Btw this is a brand new blue stripe TD600 FAFNER. (manufactored oct. 2003!)

    Well, I'll keep you informed. I wait for the response from EBS and planning a trip to my dealer.
  20. Speaking To the Head of EBS at the Music Live 2003 Show i asked him why the big power drop when the bypass switch is used (i own a fafner and 4x10)


    The Answer he gave me made Sense..

    Some bassist use external EQ racks... so0o the bypass was used to lower the output so0o it can be boosted again from an Outboard unit also...

    Some bass players like to use a looootttta Effects...and everytime u add a pedal u boost the signal.....

    Cutting inital output means you cant drive the Valve to hard thus prolonging the life...

    Makes Sense...

    but is it true..??...

    Who Knows