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A Question For The White Folks.......

#81
kesslari said:
I try to handle it with humor while making it clear that I don't share that belief, and that people of all races are OK by me.

Sometimes my humor may get a bit dark.
My model is 19th century British philanthropist Moses Montefiore, who was Jewish.
At a formal state dinner, one of the other guests said loudly "I just got back from a trip to South Africa. Wonderful place - there are no pigs or Jews there".
To which Montefiore replied coolly "Well, Lord X, I suggest that you and I travel there together. Then they would have one of each".
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Wish they'd had a 19th century (coal-driven) video-camera on that exchange!
Great story.
 
#82
Phalex said:
Relic's Lamentation (Great name for a band there!) kinda got me thinking.

How do you deal with racists? I mean the anonymous white dude that you meet that just blows your mind with vitriol?

The reason I ask:

A while back my band had a gig in a fairly rural area. The bar is literally across the road from a dairy farm, and the other 2 corners of the intersection are corn fields.

I was just heading up onstage to get tuned up and make sure everything was turned on, when I ran into this older guy that was looking at my rig. We got into a discussion about my bass, and he volunteered that he played bass way back when, and had a 60 something P-bass that he hadn't played in years. He said he and his wife had been coming to this same bar for 40 years or so, and he'd known the previous owners pretty well. They were regulars and always came out for dinner on Saturdays.

Then he looks over towards the bar, and says; "There's a N----- sitting at the bar!!" "In the 40 years I've been coming here, there has never been a N----- in here!"

I looked over where he was looking, and there was a younger black guy sitting at the bar with a white girl that I assume was his girlfriend.

I had no idea what to say in this circumstance. I still had to play all night, and didn't really didn't want to "start anything" or "Make a scene", so I was just kinda like "huh".......... And excused myself to go do my prep before it was time to play.

I made it a point to keep an eye on the guy at the bar in case there was trouble (There wasn't any) but I'm still at a loss as to how I could have better handled it.

(We're back there this weekend, and I'm kind of worried I might run into the old guy.)

So how do the rest of you white folks deal with the rest of the white folks??
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it wasnt inherently racist in my eyes, i've met plenty of people, especially older gentleman who just find that the acceptable way to refer to people of color, even tho they harbor no ill will. misguided: very much so, racist: not necessarily.
 
#83
Phalex said:
Relic's Lamentation (Great name for a band there!) kinda got me thinking.

How do you deal with racists? I mean the anonymous white dude that you meet that just blows your mind with vitriol?

The reason I ask:

A while back my band had a gig in a fairly rural area. The bar is literally across the road from a dairy farm, and the other 2 corners of the intersection are corn fields.

I was just heading up onstage to get tuned up and make sure everything was turned on, when I ran into this older guy that was looking at my rig. We got into a discussion about my bass, and he volunteered that he played bass way back when, and had a 60 something P-bass that he hadn't played in years. He said he and his wife had been coming to this same bar for 40 years or so, and he'd known the previous owners pretty well. They were regulars and always came out for dinner on Saturdays.

Then he looks over towards the bar, and says; "There's a N----- sitting at the bar!!" "In the 40 years I've been coming here, there has never been a N----- in here!"

I looked over where he was looking, and there was a younger black guy sitting at the bar with a white girl that I assume was his girlfriend.

I had no idea what to say in this circumstance. I still had to play all night, and didn't really didn't want to "start anything" or "Make a scene", so I was just kinda like "huh".......... And excused myself to go do my prep before it was time to play.

I made it a point to keep an eye on the guy at the bar in case there was trouble (There wasn't any) but I'm still at a loss as to how I could have better handled it.

(We're back there this weekend, and I'm kind of worried I might run into the old guy.)

So how do the rest of you white folks deal with the rest of the white folks??
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Hmm,...without reading the replies,...I would have packed my gear up and left gladly without pay.

But in everyday life; if I encounter racism I ignore it. I usually chalk it up to classless,...cultureless,...fearful,...gullibale,.. rube-ness. I'll make a mental note and choose not to associate with that person.

I was on the golf course with a black friend (my former boss) and we had taken a little longer than normal to make the turn. I'm pretty much a novice whereas Cary was a little more serious a practiced (read better,...I mean c'mon,...aren't all black people good at sports? [see; satire]) at it.

The course marshal; an older gentleman, came up in his little cart of authority and approached Cary and I standing right next to each other. He approached me first to complain about the amount of time it was taking (yeah right he just wanted the black guy off his *public* course). It was Cary that scheduled the Tee Time. It was Cary that paid for the round (on his CC,...I gave him cash to reimburse). I was just along to have some fun and try something new.

I'd like to give the old dude the benefit of the doubt but to be honest with you,...I think he was uncomfortable with confronting Cary,...who is as respectful and kind as any person I've ever met.

I looked at Cary, he just sorta shrugged and I told the old dude un-apologetically we would speed up our game. That sort of ruin the last 9 holes for us though.

Old dude didn't use any racial epithets but I've never been back to that course.
 
#86
Oh I concede that we were taking long. I hit my 10 stroke limit several times; again I'm not an experienced golfer.

I wouldn't have though he was being singled him out if he approached him first. It was Cary's name on the tee-times,...he should have been the more familiar face since he frequented the golf course (I'm sure they see hundreds of people),...it was just the whole body language and vibe that I caught from the marshal,...somewhat fearful and sheepish.

I could be making a mountain out of a molehill but it just struck me as odd that the guy didn't really seem to have any respect to even address or acknowledge Cary.
 
#87
I'm a white Yankee, and I lived in Alabama for 3 years, so I had a few eye-opening experiences. Here are two of the more memorable.

1. A few months after moving to town I made a trip to the laundromat. There were white and black people there. As I was loading my laundry into the truck to leave a 6 year old black child standing next to his mom and grandmom (I think) turned to me and shouted "White Man!" and then shot me four times with his finger. BAM! BAM! BAM! BAM!! I didn't know what to do, his Mom and Grandmom didn't seem to think it was worth commenting on, so I got in my truck and left. Looking back, I wish I had screamed and flopped down on the sidewalk and writhed in pain until they had to do something.

2. A successful landscaper guy out in the country hired our band to play a party in his giant yard, twice. He had his latino workers build a stage and everything. Either they weren't invited or they didn't like rock because they didn't stick around. The first time I got talking to his white neighbor about music and told him I collected records. He told me that he would love to track down an album by a band named Xavion called Burnin Hot. He and his buddies had been given a duped cassette of that album and loved every song on it so much that they wore out the tape and couldn't find a replacement. This was before the 'net really took off so he couldn't look them up himself. I went home and bought the album online, made him a cassette dupe because he didn't have a record player, and brought both to our next gig out there. He was SO happy when I handed him the cassette and showed him the album. Then he flipped it over. Xavion's portrait was on the back, they were very dark very muscular black dudes with jerri curls. He looked right at me and asked in all seriousness "Do you think they're ***gers?" It was hard not to laugh. I said whoever they are good music is good music. Then I giggled for the rest of the night.
 
#89
Normally I just blank the person for the rest of the night and shut them out as much as possible, but when it changes from a crass comment said to me into a verbal attack on someone else you have to handle it differently.

A couple of apartments ago I used to drink at a local bar with a predominantly young Asian crowd. The owner liked having a few large-but-chill dudes around so my friends and I got a lot of free beers from the (cute, small, Asian, female) bartenders in exchange for being around and visible. One night a drunk kid comes in and starts with some nasty racial **** at the girls. He was out the door instantly and I walked him four blocks down the road, pointing him out to the door guys at all the bars we passed before telling him to get the **** out. On the way back I filled the bouncers in on the details. Dumbass got 86ed from six bars that night. Hope it was worth it.
 
#91
warwick.hoy said:
I was on the golf course with a black friend (my former boss) and we had taken a little longer than normal to make the turn. I'm pretty much a novice whereas Cary was a little more serious a practiced (read better,...I mean c'mon,...aren't all black people good at sports? [see; satire]) at it.

The course marshal; an older gentleman, came up in his little cart of authority and approached Cary and I standing right next to each other. He approached me first to complain about the amount of time it was taking (yeah right he just wanted the black guy off his *public* course). It was Cary that scheduled the Tee Time. It was Cary that paid for the round (on his CC,...I gave him cash to reimburse). I was just along to have some fun and try something new.

I'd like to give the old dude the benefit of the doubt but to be honest with you,...I think he was uncomfortable with confronting Cary,...who is as respectful and kind as any person I've ever met.

I looked at Cary, he just sorta shrugged and I told the old dude un-apologetically we would speed up our game. That sort of ruin the last 9 holes for us though.

Old dude didn't use any racial epithets but I've never been back to that course.
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As an avid golfer I hate slow play. The mashall's job is to get people around the golf course in a timely fashion... No reason to see racism around that corner. I wish marshalls would get a lot more aggressive about slow play than they are!
 
#92
Dr. Cheese said:
I don't see anything else Phalex could have done other than what he did, however, I think of something that Malcolm X said a few times. Paraphrasing him, he said 'there is nothing more pointless than a white person talking to a black person about how bad racism is; if you want to make a difference, talk to other whites about how bad racism is."

When and how you do that is the question.
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I have no more duty as a white person to educate whites about race than I do about religion, personal creed, or philosophy. I am not racist, but find that most of the human race (all of them) are -- to paraphrase Hobbes -- short, brutish, and nasty! You can't educate "dumbassity" out of anyone regardless of race -- and I'm not interested in trying. If the parents didn't get it right, by the time they get to me its way too late :)
 
#93
Interesting read so far with some insightful comments.

I'm a white boy from Southern California who is married to a smokin' hot black woman from the Caribbean. Over the 10 years of our marriage we've lived in Orange County, New Zealand, Australia and back in So-Cal (Inland Empire). Our travels have also taken us extensively through the Caribbean and South Pacific Islands. Racism exists worldwide and in every stupidly, imaginable way. Everything from looks of disgust, rude or threatening comments, threats, avoidance.... in the end it comes down to not letting other people's hang ups ruin your day, your relationships and your outlook on life.

It is funny to me though how every time we meet another 'mixed couple' who are black/white how there is always a nod of recognition or a smile and 'hello'. Shared battle scars I guess. :D
 
#94
tbrannon said:
It is funny to me though how every time we meet another 'mixed couple' who are black/white how there is always a nod of recognition or a smile and 'hello'. Shared battle scars I guess. :D
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Yep, I've seen this too in my own experience. Doesn't have to be black/white though, it can be nearly any mix that can prompt some ugliness in people. My wife and I have experienced this on a few occasions. Fortunately it's not common, but it happens.
 
#95
king_biscuit said:
As an avid golfer I hate slow play. The mashall's job is to get people around the golf course in a timely fashion... No reason to see racism around that corner. I wish marshalls would get a lot more aggressive about slow play than they are!
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I gotta agree. To me it sounds like a good course if the Marshall is ACTUALLY doing his job. There are some local course that I won't play on a weekend because they have lazy marshalls.

James - In your situation, and I bet your friend could attest to this, the Marshall was probably more uneasy moving you along because he felt sorry for you because you sucked so bad. If your hitting tens you need to learn how to play a bipli.


Ball In Pocket Lost Interest.
 
#97
tbrannon said:
Interesting read so far with some insightful comments.

I'm a white boy from Southern California who is married to a smokin' hot black woman from the Caribbean. Over the 10 years of our marriage we've lived in Orange County, New Zealand, Australia and back in So-Cal (Inland Empire). Our travels have also taken us extensively through the Caribbean and South Pacific Islands. Racism exists worldwide and in every stupidly, imaginable way. Everything from looks of disgust, rude or threatening comments, threats, avoidance.... in the end it comes down to not letting other people's hang ups ruin your day, your relationships and your outlook on life.

It is funny to me though how every time we meet another 'mixed couple' who are black/white how there is always a nod of recognition or a smile and 'hello'. Shared battle scars I guess. :D
Click to expand...

My wife is also from the Caribbean, and we went back to the island she was born on to visit her dad a few years ago. I can't tell you the kind of stares we had following us around during our time there.

I actually had one guy ask me where I was from, and then he told me "We should go up to Canada and take all your women" (never mind that my wife hadn't lived there since she was 8 years old).

I just told him "Go ahead, they're not mine".
 
#98
Dr. Cheese said:
My observation is that most of you guys like to talk about race in terms of individual interactions, especially situations where someone else is being racist. Personally, an individual jackass calling me a N****R is very low on my list concerns.

I think most black people are much more worried about job discrimination, availability of credit, neighborhood redlining, institutional discrimination in law enforcement, than bozos in bars.
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I thought it was about the hair.

White folk can't get nuttin right.
 
#99
Dr. Cheese said:
My observation is that most of you guys like to talk about race in terms of individual interactions, especially situations where someone else is being racist. Personally, an individual jackass calling me a N****R is very low on my list concerns.

I think most black people are much more worried about job discrimination, availability of credit, neighborhood redlining, institutional discrimination in law enforcement, than bozos in bars.

The really big problems are beyond getting to know or each other or being a nice guy to all people.
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True, but we're also answering the question that was actually asked at the start of the thread, which is (paraphrasing) "how do we deal with the one racist **** in the bar?".

If the question was "what do you do to help fix the systemic problems underlying racial disparities in this society?" then we might have answered differently. (FWIW, if that were the question most of my answers would have been of the form "helped fund/provide for such-and-such educational initiative" rather than "threw the guy out of the bar and made sure he wasn't going to drink in my neighbourhood for a while").
 

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