A question of curiosity

[Drop1]

I'm curious.

Why do rounds typically sound brighter than something like flats ?

There is a metric ton of information out there comparing the differences between the way strings sound, but very little about "why" they sound different.

I'd like to know in depth more about the why strings sound different from a technical point of view.

I assume the mass, shape and even the texture of a string can alter the way they move in the magnetic field of the pickups, but I don't want to guess.

 

[J Posega]

We TalkBass dweebs are a tiny fraction of bass players overall. The average player goes to their local GC or shop, or Amazon, and buys whatever the person behind the counter suggests. So, basically, the vast majority aren't nerdy enough to care.

 

[bholder]

Ahh the Physics of Strings! Only TechnoDweebs strong with The GeekForce are brave enough to venture there! Paging @Jon Moody!

 

[Drop1]

We TalkBass dweebs are a tiny fraction of bass players overall. The average player goes to their local GC or shop, or Amazon, and buys whatever the person behind the counter suggests. So, basically, the vast majority aren't nerdy enough to care.

I am though lol. Spend a lot of my down time filling my head with impractical information. I find that truly understanding "how" things work, having that deeper understanding can be quite useful at times.

 

[Drop1]

Ahh the Physics of Strings! Only TechnoDweebs strong with The GeekForce are brave enough to venture there! Paging @Jon Moody!

YES. thats 100% me!

 

[J Posega]

I am though lol. Spend a lot of my down time filling my head with impractical information. I find that truly understanding "how" things work, having that deeper understanding can be quite useful at times.

I definitely Google a lot of things when I don't know; I've never really felt the need to know the why behind strings, but now I'm a little curious.

 

[Jeff Hughes]

Just a biology teacher here, but my guess would be that the little depressions between each wind produce an overtone different than the broad flat prt of the wind resulting in the zingy boing. Think of how a spring doorstop makes that springy boing noise as opposed to a flat piece of metal that makes more of a bw bw bw ah when you add tension and release it.

This is my best onomatopoeia.

 

[hasbeen]

* flats are stiffer which damps (not dampens as some say) upper harmonics.
* With flats, there is full contact between the windings and the core, which is one reason why they are stiff.

The "stiffness" factor is also why even round wounds get "darker" and "thumpier" with age- they get stiffer. This is because of the extra mass caused by the "smudge" that collects in the windings. Also, because of the repeated oscillations, the meta loses elasticity.

Note: More on damp vs dampen. If you "dampen" something, you're making it wet. If you "damp" something, you are "reducing" something, like a vibration.

 

[Ostie]

It’s because when they make the strings, the mwah! goes into the flats, and the boing! goes into the rounds. One time they got them mixed up, and there was a world-wide product recall. Thankfully, they got them all returned before any harm was done.

 

[amper]

I assume the mass, shape and even the texture of a string can alter the way they move in the magnetic field of the pickups, but I don't want to guess.

You assume correctly. Roundwound strings are more flexible and have a lower mass per unit length, and produce more upper partials, as a result.

 

[Slevage]

* flats are stiffer which damps (not dampens as some say) upper harmonics.
* With flats, there is full contact between the windings and the core, which is one reason why they are stiff.

The "stiffness" factor is also why even round wounds get "darker" and "thumpier" with age- they get stiffer. This is because of the extra mass caused by the "smudge" that collects in the windings. Also, because of the repeated oscillations, the meta loses elasticity.

Note: More on damp vs dampen. If you "dampen" something, you're making it wet. If you "damp" something, you are "reducing" something, like a vibration.

You must have had the same physics teacher I had.

 

[SDC1-ClickClack]

It’s because when they make the strings, the mwah! goes into the flats, and the boing! goes into the rounds. One time they got them mixed up, and there was a world-wide product recall. Thankfully, they got them all returned before any harm was done.

 

[cymbop]

Note: More on damp vs dampen. If you "dampen" something, you're making it wet. If you "damp" something, you are "reducing" something, like a vibration.

You are doing the lord’s work here. Thank you.

 

[charliethomas]

* flats are stiffer which damps (not dampens as some say) upper harmonics.
* With flats, there is full contact between the windings and the core, which is one reason why they are stiff.

The "stiffness" factor is also why even round wounds get "darker" and "thumpier" with age- they get stiffer. This is because of the extra mass caused by the "smudge" that collects in the windings. Also, because of the repeated oscillations, the meta loses elasticity.

Note: More on damp vs dampen. If you "dampen" something, you're making it wet. If you "damp" something, you are "reducing" something, like a vibration.

Ehh, language always changes. There's definitely use for specific jargon in specific scenarios, but outside of those contexts, I don't really see the problem with people using a term colloquially as long as it makes sense to everyone in the conversation.

Wiktionary lists "dampen" as in "to damp" as the 3rd definition here, with a note on how that usage may be considered incorrect in technical contexts: dampen - Wiktionary, the free dictionary (and you may consider this a technical context, so that's maybe fine here, but you didn't really specify)

Prescribing how people SHOULD use language rarely works. It's better to share something like this as "hey did you know that in physics, these words are used in this way" rather than "you are incorrect and should change the way you talk" (not that you said that, but people online often come across that way).

And no, words changing meaning over time will not lead to the "devolution of language" as some may say. We don't have noun cases in modern English like they did in old English, but we have complicated phrasal verbs and prepositional phrases that get across the same meaning. People have complained about language changing all the way back to some of the earliest written sources we have - and those languages have either completely changed or died out.

 

[pbass74]

If you bounce a fully inflated basketball (round) it goes "boing". However, if you flatten it and bounce it, it goes "thump". Same with bass strings??

 

[Tim Skaggs]

Merriam-Webster says “dampen” means;
dampen
verb
damp·en ˈdam-pən

dampened; dampening ˈdamp-niŋ
ˈdam-pə-
transitive verb

1: to check or diminish the activity or vigor of: DEADEN

2: to make damp.


intransitive verb

1: to become damp

2: to become deadened or depressed

As for why rounds are brighter than flats; flexibility. The outer winding of rounds is a “round” wire. This adds mass, but doesn’t restrict the bending of the string much because the round wire touching itself has very little surface area actually touching. Touching the sides of two cylindrical shapes together, like two cans for example, has a very small surface area touching vs. touching the sides of two pieces of square tubing together.

Some flats have square shaped winding wire wrapped around the core wire. Some flats might also have a ribbon wrapped around the core with the ribbon overlapped. Both types are less flexible than a core wire wound with round wire.

This isn’t my first hand knowledge; this is some info imparted by John D’Adderio in an old Bass Player magazine from at least early to mid 90s. I just remember reading the article and going back to reference info in the article a few times. I can no longer find it….

 

[Grinderman]

(Smudge Sandwich)

I just learned a new term or new usage of a word. Thank you.

When I'm driving in my car
When a man come on the radio
He's telling me more and more
About some useless information
Supposed to fire my imagination

 

[kgbeast]

Merriam-Webster says “dampen” means;
dampen
verb
damp·en ˈdam-pən

dampened; dampening ˈdamp-niŋ
ˈdam-pə-
transitive verb

1: to check or diminish the activity or vigor of: DEADEN

2: to make damp.


intransitive verb

1: to become damp

2: to become deadened or depressed

As for why rounds are brighter than flats; flexibility. The outer winding of rounds is a “round” wire. This adds mass, but doesn’t restrict the bending of the string much because the round wire touching itself has very little surface area actually touching. Touching the sides of two cylindrical shapes together, like two cans for example, has a very small surface area touching vs. touching the sides of two pieces of square tubing together.

Some flats have square shaped winding wire wrapped around the core wire. Some flats might also have a ribbon wrapped around the core with the ribbon overlapped. Both types are less flexible than a core wire wound with round wire.

This isn’t my first hand knowledge; this is some info imparted by John D’Adderio in an old Bass Player magazine from at least early to mid 90s. I just remember reading the article and going back to reference info in the article a few times. I can no longer find it….

I'd go with that. Mostly with the statement about flexibility of the string. More flexible the string, more high frequency harmonics it is capable of. Do not really need to research strings, just search for waveform with harmonics. If the string can not do what green line does, it is going to be purer sinewave, hence with less harmonics. Harmonics is what gives the brightmess.

 

[Lava]

Google> Talkbass Rounds vs. Flats
There are posts upon posts on this very subject...

 

[Nashrakh]

* flats are stiffer which damps (not dampens as some say) upper harmonics.
* With flats, there is full contact between the windings and the core, which is one reason why they are stiff.

The "stiffness" factor is also why even round wounds get "darker" and "thumpier" with age- they get stiffer. This is because of the extra mass caused by the "smudge" that collects in the windings. Also, because of the repeated oscillations, the meta loses elasticity.

Note: More on damp vs dampen. If you "dampen" something, you're making it wet. If you "damp" something, you are "reducing" something, like a vibration.

If your hypothesis about contact surface is correct, roundcore strings would be stiffer than hex core, which is not the case. Quite the opposite. So I am not convinced.