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A theory 'question' that I am batteling with big time.

G

Gavin Hobbs

Jan 10, 2022
34
27
#1
Hey Hi. (Hope I'm on the right forum .)
I am a self taught Double Bassist , started on the electric bass and transitioned up to the Upright.
I am desperately looking for a teacher in my area but sadly there are none.
I am also trying to teach myself how to understand music theory and read score/sheet music.
I understand this is a life's endeavor and as a mature student I'm 55 years old, I've got some catching up to do,I do practice everyday for 4 hours sometimes longer, six days a week so I am really serious about getting this right.)
As a bassist I'm focusing on the Bass Clef side of things ?
OK MY QUESTION : I confuse myself just trying to explain myself .
For example when reading the measure/staff (in Bass Clef) if you placed a whole note(or half note or quarter note) on the FIRST SPACE on staff/measure, am I correct in saying that note would be A ?
Now my confusion is , is this A the open A string I am meant to play/pluck/bow or the A on the E string ?( The fifth note on the E string or the fifth fret on a fretboard of a Bass guitar.)
Which A am I meant to play when I see this note on the first space on the measure/staff ? Am I meant to sound/pluck/play/bow the open A string or the A on the E string? (Fifth note up the fingerboard , fifth fret on the fretboard of the bass guitar.)
OK next example take the tone/letter B , on the staff/measure this is depicted/shown/marked on the SECOND LINE, is this B the B on the A string ?(the second note/fret)
Or is it the B on the E string ?( the seventh note/fret up the fretboard/fingerboard ) Say I'm trying to play the bass line to Canon in D(in the Bass clef , there are so many versions I'm aware.)
When I come to the fourth note ( in this version it's shown as a B ) it appears on the SECOND LINE telling me this note/tone is B, but which B do I use ? The B on the A string or the B on the E string?
I'm aware they're the same note but the B on the E string has slightly different sound to the B on the A string . (Obviously )
So my question is which B do I play ?
I'm sure this is the one of the dumbest questions asked ever, but it's destroying me I just cant seem to find the answer , please help, I feel I'm that I am so close to understanding music theory but I just cant move past this problem.
Thank you , sorry for waffling on but just trying to explain myself has confused the living heck out of me.
Cheers.........
Gavin Alexander
p/s I have used the following words "staff/measure" because I'm not sure which is the correct version and I've said "play/sound/pluck or bow" because I'm not sure which word in this context is correct and used the letters A and B from the musical alphabet calling then "notes/tones" , again because I'm not sure which word is the correct word ??
 
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#2
Gavin Hobbs said:
For example when reading the measure/staff (in Bass Clef) if you placed a whole note(or half note or quarter note) on the FIRST SPACE on staff/measure, am I correct in saying that note would be A ?
Now my confusion is , is this A the open A string I am meant to play/pluck/bow or the A on the E string ?( The fifth note on the E string or the fifth fret on a fretboard of a Bass guitar.)
Which A am I meant to play when I see this note on the first space on the measure/staff ? Am I meant to sound/pluck/play/bow the open A string or the A on the E string? (Fifth note up the fingerboard , fifth fret on the fretboard of the bass guitar.)
OK next example take the tone/letter B , on the staff/measure this is depicted/shown/marked on the SECOND LINE, is this B the B on the A string ?(the second note/fret)
Or is it the B on the E string ?( the seventh note/fret up the fretboard/fingerboard ) Say I'm trying to play the bass line to Canon in D(in the Bass clef , there are so many versions I'm aware.)
Click to expand...

The answer is Yes. As you have found, basic Standard Notation does not tell you where to play the note. Sometimes, in a high-quality or professional score there might be additional notation on the score to indicate string number, counting from 1 (G) to 4 (E) or, occasionally, 5 (low B). It might look like this...

upload_2022-1-10_19-48-3.png


or this...
upload_2022-1-10_19-51-30.png


But more often than not it is left to you to find the best position, which usually means working out a compromise between tone/timbre, convenience of fingering and what is coming next.
 
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#3
SteveCS said:
The answer is Yes. As you have found, basic Standard Notation does not tell you where to play the note. Sometimes, in a high-quality or professional score there might be additional notation on the score to indicate string number, counting from 1 (G) to 4 (E) or, occasionally, 5 (low B). It might look like this...

View attachment 4536869

or this...
View attachment 4536871

But more often than not it is left to you to find the best position, which usually means working out a compromise between tone/timbre, convenience of fingering and what is coming next.
Click to expand...
Thank you for getting back to me Steve , I am going to crack this problem sooner than latter...
 
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#4
You are correct on the notes of the clef. The notes themselves can be played at various locations on the instrument. The A notated in the first space can be played on either the open string or the 5th fret (or position) on the E String. As you work up the fingerboard, notes can be played in many different positions. For example, take the G notated in the top space of the clef. There are four different locations where you can play that G. 15th fret of the E string, 10th fret of the A string, 5th fret of the D string or the open G string. Watch this and see if it helps . . .

 
#6
Groove Doctor said:
15th fret. Just to clarify.
Click to expand...

Yes, it was changed shortly after I posted. When I reread my reply, I noticed that it had an exclamation point instead of a one (!5). Then when I edited the post to read 15 and saved it, it only read 5. Took another edit to get it to read 15. Is it still reading 5 for you, 'cause your post and quote is almost 30 minutes after after my change?
 
#7
FatStringer52 said:
You are correct on the notes of the clef. The notes themselves can be played at various locations on the instrument. The A notated in the first space can be played on either the open string or the 5th fret (or position) on the E String. As you work up the fingerboard, notes can be played in many different positions. For example, take the G notated in the top space of the clef. There are four different locations where you can play that G. 15th fret of the E string, 10th fret of the A string, 5th fret of the D string or the open G string. Watch this and see if it helps . . .

Click to expand...

Hi Fatstringer ....thank you for getting back to me.
But I believe I have confused you along with myself and the rest of the world.
I am aware of the different positions of all the notes/tones in the musical alphabet and where exactly they are on the neck of my double bass and bass guitar that's not my issue .
My question regards the exact position of these tones/notes on the staff/measure .
So the note/tone B (the B on the second fret on the A string and so not to add confusion lets say the B on the A string of the fretboard on my Bass Guitar, not the fingerboard of my double bass )
I need to understand exactly just where this B is placed on the staff/measure, surely it will be depicted on the SECOND LNE on the staff/measure so when I'm looking at score/sheet music and I see a quarter note depicted/shown on the SECOND LINE I immediately know to go to the second note on the A string it'll always be that B, the B on the A string... anyway like I said earlier thank you for getting back to me I did watch the video.
 
#8
Hi Fatstringer ....thank you for getting back to me.
But I believe I have confused you along with myself and the rest of the world.
I am aware of the different positions of all the notes/tones in the musical alphabet and where exactly they are on the neck of my double bass and bass guitar that's not my issue .
My question regards the exact position of these tones/notes on the staff/measure .
So the note/tone B (the B on the second fret on the A string and so not to add confusion lets say the B on the A string of the fretboard on my Bass Guitar, not the fingerboard of my double bass )
I need to understand exactly just where this B is placed on the staff/measure, surely it will be depicted on the SECOND LNE on the staff/measure so when I'm looking at score/sheet music and I see a quarter note depicted/shown on the SECOND LINE I immediately know to go to the second note on the A string it'll always be that B, the B on the A string... anyway like I said earlier thank you for getting back to me I did watch the video.
 
#10
Gavin Hobbs said:
Hi Fatstringer ....thank you for getting back to me.
But I believe I have confused you along with myself and the rest of the world.
I am aware of the different positions of all the notes/tones in the musical alphabet and where exactly they are on the neck of my double bass and bass guitar that's not my issue .
My question regards the exact position of these tones/notes on the staff/measure .
So the note/tone B (the B on the second fret on the A string and so not to add confusion lets say the B on the A string of the fretboard on my Bass Guitar, not the fingerboard of my double bass )
I need to understand exactly just where this B is placed on the staff/measure, surely it will be depicted on the SECOND LNE on the staff/measure so when I'm looking at score/sheet music and I see a quarter note depicted/shown on the SECOND LINE I immediately know to go to the second note on the A string it'll always be that B, the B on the A string... anyway like I said earlier thank you for getting back to me I did watch the video.
Click to expand...

Gotcha. The B on the 2nd fret of the A string is notated on the 2nd line of the bass clef. However, the B on the 7th fret of the E string is also notated on the second line of the bass clef. They are, in fact, the same note although there will be a slight difference in timbre.
 
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#13
SteveCS said:
The answer is Yes. As you have found, basic Standard Notation does not tell you where to play the note. Sometimes, in a high-quality or professional score there might be additional notation on the score to indicate string number, counting from 1 (G) to 4 (E) or, occasionally, 5 (low B). It might look like this...

View attachment 4536869

or this...
View attachment 4536871

But more often than not it is left to you to find the best position, which usually means working out a compromise between tone/timbre, convenience of fingering and what is coming next.
Click to expand...
Steve the two diagrams of the staff/measure you posted were/are most helpful , thank you.
 
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#14
The gist of the video I posted is all of the same notes on the bass clef. It's not an exercise on learning the notes on your fingerboard as much as it is an exercise to learn where all of the same notes, as notated on the bass clef, are located on the instrument. As an example, when he gets to the octave A (2nd fret on the G string), all of the A's that he plays (2nd fret G, 7th fret D, 12th fret A and 17th fret E) are all the same little black dot on the bass clef. That A on the bass clef (top line) does not guide you to a specific location on the fingerboard. You have options and those options are more than likely going to be determined by where your coming from and where you're going to and in what position your hand is in.
 
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#15
Groove Doctor said:
The Music staff only tells you the pitch. You never know which string it’s played on or which finger to press down (the opposite of TAB).
Click to expand...
Hi Groove Doctor , thank you for your input but I am still battling with this . If I'm looking at a piece of sheet music( in G Clef) and the first note(for augments sake say it's a quarter note) depicted on the first space is an A , this A is it the A on the E string ?(5th fret up on the fretboard) or is this the open A string which I am meant to "play/sound/pluck or bow?" I am really battling with this , sorry for all the confusion but I really do appreciate the advice and input.
 
#17
Having never taken bass lessons, so I can only guess, but if you were working with an instructor, at this stage in your education, he'd likely tell you to play these notes in the first position option (frets 1-5). It's typical to get students able to read in first position before exploring the fretboard. There's enough involved in learning to read music and learning to apply that to an instrument that the first 5 frets is plenty of territory to chew on.

So for these examples, while learning to read: your A would be A0 and the B would be A2.

After you get the first position figured out, you should begin exploring the rest of the fretboard, trypically by moving into second position.

In a real world situation, I tend to select which A (E5 or A0 in this case) to play based on the line I am playing. I try to find the most efficient method to get from one note to the next. In some cases the slight tonal difference will matter, but most of the time it doesn't (at least not in the style that I play).

Keep at it and take your time. This can be some pretty complex stuff and good on ya for having a go at this. Reading music is not always a necessary skill to have, but it sure is a good one to have in the bag.
 
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#18
Gavin Hobbs said:
Hi Groove Doctor , thank you for your input but I am still battling with this . If I'm looking at a piece of sheet music( in G Clef) and the first note(for augments sake say it's a quarter note) depicted on the first space is an A , this A is it the A on the E string ?(5th fret up on the fretboard) or is this the open A string which I am meant to "play/sound/pluck or bow?" I am really battling with this , sorry for all the confusion but I really do appreciate the advice and input.
Click to expand...
You are battling with it because you want the answer to be more precise than the actual answer is. Standard notation generally doesn't give you the information that you are asking for; it is not rigid in a way that it demands you play certain notes in one place only.

What will give you that information is practice, because how you play one note will influence the choices as to where you play the next note. More experience will guide you to play those notes at the frets that make the most sense, but you have freedom to move as you wish, which is actually quite good.

As an alternative, you could learn to read TAB, but most people here think TAB is a very poor substitute for standard notation (I do as well). However what it gives you is exactly the detail you are asking for, while offering very little else.
 
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#19
In my limited knowledge of scores (high school level 'Cello), I understand that music notation for strings is considered to be bowed until noted otherwise. A note for 'Pizz.' (pizzicato) will appear when plucking is to begin. To resume to bowing, "Arco" is noted.
 
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#20
Forgive me if I am wrong but I think you are confusing Tab with Notation. Tab does give you the specific String and fret to play where notation most of the time does not. Here is a link to some different things in a score that will tell you how to play the note https://www.halleonard.com/bin/musicNotationBass.pdf
I have played in many Pits and do not recall in Notation seeing thing that says I had to play the note in a certain position. If it was there I probably ignored it. LOL
Edit: This doc does not show the Pizz or Arco witch would tell you to Plug or bow a passage.
 
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