A theory 'question' that I am batteling with big time.

[Gavin Hobbs]

Forgive me if I am wrong but I think you are confusing Tab with Notation. Tab does give you the specific String and fret to play where notation most of the time does not. Here is a link to some different things in a score that will tell you how to play the note https://www.halleonard.com/bin/musicNotationBass.pdf
I have played in many Pits and do not recall in Notation seeing thing that says I had to play the note in a certain position. If it was there I probably ignored it. LOL
Edit: This doc does not show the Pizz or Arco witch would tell you to Plug or bow a passage.

Hi Jeremy.
Thank you so much for getting back to me with very helpful information , nope I understand tab(actually now wish I had not learnt it) Tab is very good at giving you the exact tone/note position on the fingerboard/fretboard that your looking for.
I am slowly starting to get the hang of sheet music/score ( never know which is the correct term to use ?)I will now go to the link you provided , again thank you.
Cheers.
Gavin.

 

[Gavin Hobbs]

Well said.


Well said.


+1.

In my limited knowledge of scores (high school level 'Cello), I understand that music notation for strings is considered to be bowed until noted otherwise. A note for 'Pizz.' (pizzicato) will appear when plucking is to begin. To resume to bowing, "Arco" is noted.

Hello Thud Thud Thud.
Thank you for getting back to me with with helpful information. I am aware of the different marking for Arco and Pizz,.
I am actually playing with the bow more and more and Pizzicato is tasking a bit of a back seat ,and I pick up my bass guitar when I need a break from the double bass , hell bent on learning how to use the bow.
I no longer receive death threats from the neighbors , one who told me said it sounded like I was trying to strangle a cow ??
Practice practice practice , again thank you.

 

[Gavin Hobbs]

The gist of the video I posted is all of the same notes on the bass clef. It's not an exercise on learning the notes on your fingerboard as much as it is an exercise to learn where all of the same notes, as notated on the bass clef, are located on the instrument. As an example, when he gets to the octave A (2nd fret on the G string), all of the A's that he plays (2nd fret G, 7th fret D, 12th fret A and 17th fret E) are all the same little black dot on the bass clef. That A on the bass clef (top line) does not guide you to a specific location on the fingerboard. You have options and those options are more than likely going to be determined by where your coming from and where you're going to and in what position your hand is in.

Hi Again.
Once again thank you for this helpful information this forum group has saved what few hairs I have left.
I now feel a tad more confident to move forward , just being able to discuss music issue problems with other musicians has been groundbreaking thank you.
Cheers.
Gavin.

 

[Gavin Hobbs]

https://www.amazon.com/Essential-El...ocphy=9009452&hvtargid=pla-417029619024&psc=1

This book comes with a DVD.

Hey Hi.
Thank you for taking the effort to assist me I really do appreciate it .
The advice I have received from this forum group has been literally groundbreaking ( I know were not meant to use the word literally anymore so forgive.)
Essential Elements for Strings is fantastic , thank you for the link.
Cheers.
Gavin.

 

[Gavin Hobbs]

These are not a theoretical questions. The music the location of the the note on the staff tells you what pitch you need to play, With the fretted bass you can play the same pitch on different strings as you pointed out. Which string you use is based on your choice of the most convenient one in relation to other notes you will be playing.

There may be a bit of timbre variance between choices, but for clarification purposes the pitch is the same.

Hey Hi.
Thank you for getting back to me and thank you for your helpful information.
Cheers.
Gavin.

 

[SteveCS]

...
...
Living in South Africa and trying to become a classically trained bassist
...

To this end - and at the risk of going off-topic - you really do need to find a good teacher, and sooner rather than later. Not only will they be able to show you how to read music, they will also be able to help you develop your bow hold and to develop good hand-shape or posture. Both of these things are probably more important as knowing where the notes are - firstly because you need them both to make anything like a nice sound with good intonation, and secondly because you will spend the rest of your playing life maintaining and improving them.

To add some perspective, my daughter started playing 'cello in 2010 (at the age of 7) and picked up double-bass in 2017. She was fortunate enough to win a scholarship that gave her access to world-class tuition from 2019-2021. She reached grade 8 'cello in 2019 and in double-bass in 2021. She is now at the Royal Academy of Music studying classical double-bass. She still spends an amount of time every day just watching, analysing and improving her bow-hold and hand-shape.

In the meantime, take a look at this (Thomas taught my daughter's former teacher and looks after her bows and really know his stuff):

 

[Gavin Hobbs]

Yes it's that A, or the A that's on the 4th string, 5th fret.

There are multiple locations for most of the notes on the bass. In fact, they exist for every note except the very highest notes and the very lowest notes on the bass.

It's up to you to decide where to play your parts. In general, you want to play them in the way that: 1) sounds best (different positions of the same note have different timbres), 2) best prepares you for what lies ahead in the music, and 3) takes the least left hand movement/thumb shifting. You must sometimes compromise, as you can't always achieve all of these goals at once.

When you are in any of the "standard" tunings, the "same note in a different position" is always one string down and five frets up...or, conversely, one string up and five frets down. Be sure to consider the string to be nut a fret when applying this rule, and remember that this is for standard tunings only. It won't work with something like a drop D or drop C tuning (though it would work with D standard or C standard tuning).

Learning to READ music is NOT learning to PLAY your instrument. Make sure you have a good, classic, conservative/formal electric bass technique book to study as well!

Hey Hi To You.
Thank you so much for getting back to me with this helpful information , I have received numerous helpful responses from quit a few musicians .
Your advise is bang on thank you, this forum group is fantastic.
I have bought quit a few books on music theory , books on Bass Guitar theory ect.
I have not been able to locate a Double Bass teacher in my town/area ,nor any other double bassists who I can chat with regarding these issues(you might find this hard to believe bit so far it would seem I am the only double bassist in Johannesburg/Gauteng ,can you believe it ??.)
So thank you again for taking the time to help me sort this nightmare out.
Cheers.
Gavin.

 

[Gavin Hobbs]

You are battling with it because you want the answer to be more precise than the actual answer is. Standard notation generally doesn't give you the information that you are asking for; it is not rigid in a way that it demands you play certain notes in one place only.

What will give you that information is practice, because how you play one note will influence the choices as to where you play the next note. More experience will guide you to play those notes at the frets that make the most sense, but you have freedom to move as you wish, which is actually quite good.

As an alternative, you could learn to read TAB, but most people here think TAB is a very poor substitute for standard notation (I do as well). However what it gives you is exactly the detail you are asking for, while offering very little else.

Hey Hi.

Thank you so much for replying to my request.
I have had the worst time trying to find a teacher or another double bassist in my town/area with no luck, so I have been trying to learn from YouTube tutorials.
I have bought books on music theory and the Bass guitar and have learnt tons from them but I still battle with quit a bit but this forum group has really been a life saver so thank you again.
Cheer's.
Gavin.

 

[Gavin Hobbs]

With Skype you can take lessons from anyone anywhere in the world.

Hey Hi.
Yip Skype is fantastic but I have been unemployed for the last five years due to End Stage Liver Disease , money is tight to say the least , dreading having to re-hair my bow soon.
You are correct recommending lessons I would recommend to everybody that if they could take/get lessons they should , sort out problems there and then and learn , be taught in a constructive manner .
Thank you fro replying.
Cheers.
Gavin.

 

[SteveCS]

...
...
last five years due to End Stage Liver Disease ,
...

Wow! Sorry to hear about that, which does change things. I would point you in the direction of this 'playlist' of really good videos from George Martin (includes the one above):

 

[Gavin Hobbs]

To this end - and at the risk of going off-topic - you really do need to find a good teacher, and sooner rather than later. Not only will they be able to show you how to read music, they will also be able to help you develop your bow hold and to develop good hand-shape or posture. Both of these things are probably more important as knowing where the notes are - firstly because you need them both to make anything like a nice sound with good intonation, and secondly because you will spend the rest of your playing life maintaining and improving them.

To add some perspective, my daughter started playing 'cello in 2010 (at the age of 7) and picked up double-bass in 2017. She was fortunate enough to win a scholarship that gave her access to world-class tuition from 2019-2021. She reached grade 8 'cello in 2019 and in double-bass in 2021. She is now at the Royal Academy of Music studying classical double-bass. She still spends an amount of time every day just watching, analysing and improving her bow-hold and hand-shape.

In the meantime, take a look at this (Thomas taught my daughter's former teacher and looks after her bows and really know his stuff):

Hi Steve.
I have watched this tutorial sooooo many times.
Please tell me if I need to go to another place to continue this conversation to avoid going off topic it gets you sarky messages.
I am new to this forum group and quit the caveman regarding computers and the internet.
But you are 100% correct regarding finding a teacher , I have battled with my posture, I play sitting down (due to serious health issues this is not an option.)
I cut the legs of my stool shorter 4 times and have fiddled with the end pin length to many times to mention and finely found the right height and position to sit.
I switched from French Bow to the German Bow and it was positively life changing .
I play in front of a mirror and am constantly making sure the bow is horizontal and that I have full hair on the strings.
Correct posture and holding the bow are issues I am very aware of and constantly trying to correct.
Without a teacher perfecting tonality and technique will be very difficult for me to achieve on my own.
I have given up looking for Double Bass teachers in my town and Johhanesburg/Gauteng is one of the biggest cities in the world?? man I cant even find other local double bassists I can chat to or ask questions it would seem that I am it ( and if that's the case what a sad state of affairs.)
I have improved greatly I do practice every day for hours and hours and no longer receive death threats from the neighbors.)
I am aware you can receive Skype lessons from anywhere in the world but due to being seriously broke and mounting medical bills , every spare cent goes to music stuff and repairs ect.
You must be so proud of your daughter , I would love to hear her play how many hours does she practice every day? ( roughly)
Thank you again for all your lengthy and helpful replies joining this forum group was the best move I could have made.
Cheers.
Gavin.

 

[SLO Surfer]

you might find this hard to believe bit so far it would seem I am the only double bassist in Johannesburg/Gauteng

That is hard to believe, especially considering you have a local orchestra, The Johannesburg Philharmonic Orchestra. Organizations like this typically have connections to private instructors, and a good number of the orchestra musicians are typically private instructors themselves. I highly recommend you reach out to this organization to inquire about private bass lessons. They should be able to at least point you in the right direction.

 

[themickster]

It doesn't matter whether you play the A on the third or fourth string. They're the same pitch.

 

[LBS-bass]

Hey Hi.

Thank you so much for replying to my request.
I have had the worst time trying to find a teacher or another double bassist in my town/area with no luck, so I have been trying to learn from YouTube tutorials.
I have bought books on music theory and the Bass guitar and have learnt tons from them but I still battle with quit a bit but this forum group has really been a life saver so thank you again.
Cheer's.
Gavin.

It can be hard (and interesting!) to piece together theory points when you're learning on your own. Hopefully this is all helpful. Wishing you the very best

 

[Gavin Hobbs]

That is hard to believe, especially considering you have a local orchestra, The Johannesburg Philharmonic Orchestra. Organizations like this typically have connections to private instructors, and a good number of the orchestra musicians are typically private instructors themselves. I highly recommend you reach out to this organization to inquire about private bass lessons. They should be able to at least point you in the right direction.

That is hard to believe, especially considering you have a local orchestra, The Johannesburg Philharmonic Orchestra. Organizations like this typically have connections to private instructors, and a good number of the orchestra musicians are typically private instructors themselves. I highly recommend you reach out to this organization to inquire about private bass lessons. They should be able to at least point you in the right direction.

HI SLO Surfer.
I am sorry you find my story hard to believe but I am finding out that the music scene in my country is it would seem very different to the rest of the worlds.
I have in the past tried desperately to find a Double Bass teacher in my area actually used an app and found one approximately 100km's away.
I did speak to on the phone with a gentleman who I believe had played for one of the orchestras in the past and he was not at all interested in taking on a mature student, not at all he was rather blunt about it.
We do not have student orchestras or community orchestras , not a single one.
I have emailed The String Department of The Johannesburg Philharmonic Orchestra and the Music Department at The University Of Cape Town ( I actually email the principal bassist herself) I received no replies .
I have tried finding people on Facebook in my area any double bass enthusiasts,anyone just to chat with no luck..
I 100% agree with you lessons with a teacher is the best option for a learning Double Bassist I would give anything for lessons , music theory lessons as well of course.
And now with Skype you can get lessons from any double bassists anywhere in the world.( Yet to find free one on one face time lessons though but on YouTube there are a lot of very helpful free tutorials , I hope I am not sounding cheap or looking for any freebies.)
BUT sod's law I've diagnosed with Liver Cirrhosis F4 End Stage, haven't been able to work for awhile now and honestly and proudly announce that I'm seriously financially in trouble ,so every spare cent I find goes towards strings , rosin and bow rehairing.
I have another story to might find hard to believe ,I think I am the only person in South Africa who has a 1/4 sized German Bow .
I say this with confidence because after phoning every music store/outlet/retailer and with no luck at all ,one salesperson actually asked if they came in that size and was I not looking for a 1/2 sized bow as they are basically the same thing.
I ordered my bow from England on Amazon .
Since joining this forum ( for a second time ) a couple of days ago and asking my really dumb question have received so many helpful, and a couple of groundbreaking replies .....Thank You.
Cheers.Gavin.

 

[Gavin Hobbs]

It can be hard (and interesting!) to piece together theory points when you're learning on your own. Hopefully this is all helpful. Wishing you the very best

It is helpful , thank you.
LOL I am almost scared to ask I HAVE ANOTHER DUMB QUESTION ....hope this is still music theory related so that I am still on topic...
As a bassist should I focus on the Bass Clef or all the Clef's ?
As most of our lines are written on the Bass Clef I find that most of the lovely melodies are normally given to the violins or cellos which are written on the Treble Clef's sometimes the Alto Clef of course , so as A bassist do I focus on the Bass Clef or all the Clefs ?
Cheers.
Gavin.

 

[Gavin Hobbs]

It doesn't matter whether you play the A on the third or fourth string. They're the same pitch.

You are correct , thank you for your reply,
Cheers.
Gavin.

 

[Gavin Hobbs]

Forgive me if I am wrong but I think you are confusing Tab with Notation. Tab does give you the specific String and fret to play where notation most of the time does not. Here is a link to some different things in a score that will tell you how to play the note https://www.halleonard.com/bin/musicNotationBass.pdf
I have played in many Pits and do not recall in Notation seeing thing that says I had to play the note in a certain position. If it was there I probably ignored it. LOL
Edit: This doc does not show the Pizz or Arco witch would tell you to Plug or bow a passage.

Thank you for the link so helpful.

 

[Gavin Hobbs]

First up, the Bass clef, with A in the first space, is F Clef. Because it looks like an F and because it straddles the F line. The G Clef is treble clef.

As for the actual place you play, unless otherwise directed it is up to you. Context is everything. The more you play and the more exposure you get to the repertoire your musicianship will increase and with it your ability to make better informed choices. For now, I would take the advice of @mrcbass above and stick to half and 1st position, so open to 4th stop with pinky. Which puts A as open string only. For now!

Ok I will dive into half and first positions and for the next couple of weeks and months .

 

[SteveCS]

...
...
As most of our lines are written on the Bass Clef I find that most of the lovely melodies are normally given to the violins or cellos which are written on the Treble Clef's sometimes the Alto Clef of course , so as A bassist do I focus on the Bass Clef or all the Clefs ?

For bass I would stick to Bass and Treble. The range of the basss guitar reaches the top of the treble clef - the double-bass significantly higher. Remember that music written for bass is written 8va, that is to say 1 octave above where it sounds. 'Cello uses Bass, Tenor and Treble clefs, but not Alto. Both Tenor and Alto are 'C' clefs - the line they are placed on represents middle C. As such, they are rarely transposed so you won't see much of them in bass music.