A thought about hex core

[LetItGrowTone]

I think we have a consensus that hex core and round core sound a little different, with round core often described as sounding smoother, but haven't talked about it much. I read - just a blurb in a string manufacturer's marketing verbiage I'm pretty sure - that a round core has "no preferred plane of vibration" (I think it said "axis", but I'd rather say plane).

So they're saying, and this seems reasonable, that a hex core string bends easier across the flat faces of the hex and harder across the six apices, as it's thicker there.

Now let's imagine that only the fundamental is on the string, and suppose that the string is not vibrating in a plane, but in an oval (which is probably always the case).

So each time around the oval its path passes closer to a plane through apices six times (I think that's right) and closer to a plane passing through flat faces six times.

Here's the interesting part: this number - six times the fundamental - *is* harmonically related to the fundamental; it *is* harmonically related to the note being played, so it isn't just noise.

And here is my speculation: I think this might be the source of an exquisite little edge I've often noticed on low notes, especially when tone/treble isn't too high. Although there are other frequencies on the string, and this can get complicated and even sound like a splash of noise?, that edge adds a lot of intelligibility I think.

**
If a string manufacturer intentionally twists the core before winding, or if the winding process causes it to become twisted, then this could upset the pretty picture above.

 

[GTHintz]

Well I can definitely say that hex core strings come across as crisper and edgier than roundcores that seems to be more airy and growly sure but rounder kind of attack. I think that's why hibeams are more scooped out than say Rotosound or Lol Riders. I definitely noticed the difference. Some basses it works great and others it lacks a little something. Excellent post!

 

[iiipopes]

I think we have a consensus that hex core and round core sound a little different, with round core often described as sounding smoother, but haven't talked about it much. I read - just a blurb in a string manufacturer's marketing verbiage I'm pretty sure - that a round core has "no preferred plane of vibration" (I think it said "axis", but I'd rather say plane).

So they're saying, and this seems reasonable, that a hex core string bends easier across the flat faces of the hex and harder across the six apices, as it's thicker there.

Now let's imagine that only the fundamental is on the string, and suppose that the string is not vibrating in a plane, but in an oval (which is probably always the case).

So each time around the oval its path passes closer to a plane through apices six times (I think that's right) and closer to a plane passing through flat faces six times.

Here's the interesting part: this number - six times the fundamental - *is* harmonically related to the fundamental; it *is* harmonically related to the note being played, so it isn't just noise.

And here is my speculation: I think this might be the source of an exquisite little edge I've often noticed on low notes, especially when tone/treble isn't too high. Although there are other frequencies on the string, and this can get complicated and even sound like a splash of noise?, that edge adds a lot of intelligibility I think.

**
If a string manufacturer intentionally twists the core before winding, or if the winding process causes it to become twisted, then this could upset the pretty picture above.

In the double bass world, round cores are the standard. Also pretty standard for some strings is the concept of "rope core" before the final winding. The best-known examples are Thomastik-Infeld Spirocore strings. As the name indicates, they have spiral core windings, and even spiral sub-windings on each of the core strands. The spiral sub-windings were developed as the next step after their original rope core strings, the Superflexible line.

Since double bass manufacturers don't use hex cores on the strings to grip the windings like electric bass string manufacturers use, I can't give any comparisons that would help confirm or refute the observations, but slow-motion and stop-action photographs of the vibration of double bass strings that can vibrate in circles, ovals, and different partial overtone characteristics, depending on the string, the pitch, arco or pizz, etc., is consistent with the OP's obervations.

Video:

 

[Dan_reeves]

I am probably the only person on this forum who feels this way, but I am not sure I can tell much difference between the two. I have two similar basses, one with DR Sunbeams 45-105 and the other with DR Nickle Lo Riders also 45-105 and they feel very similar. In fact I am not sure I could tell the difference if I didn’t already know.

 

[GTHintz]

I am probably the only person on this forum who feels this way, but I am not sure I can tell much difference between the two. I have two similar basses, one with DR Sunbeams 45-105 and the other with DR Nickle Lo Riders also 45-105 and they feel very similar. In fact I am not sure I could tell the difference if I didn’t already know.

That's definitely interesting. I could see if you're mostly a pick player that it wouldn't be a real big difference. For me it seemed like the reaction especially when I played a little harder seemed to feel bouncier. Hard to describe but it felt good but not what I needed for the particular bass I was playing. Where the roundcores really sounded best was up the neck. They were great for that but I wasn't too impressed with the e string. B surprisingly sounded great but not the e string. On the right bass I think they are wonderful though. I'll definitely take the feel over lots of strings I've tried. I imagine sunbeams to be even smoother because of the nickel.

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

I think we have a consensus that hex core and round core sound a little different, with round core often described as sounding smoother, but haven't talked about it much. I read - just a blurb in a string manufacturer's marketing verbiage I'm pretty sure - that a round core has "no preferred plane of vibration" (I think it said "axis", but I'd rather say plane).

So they're saying, and this seems reasonable, that a hex core string bends easier across the flat faces of the hex and harder across the six apices, as it's thicker there.

Now let's imagine that only the fundamental is on the string, and suppose that the string is not vibrating in a plane, but in an oval (which is probably always the case).

So each time around the oval its path passes closer to a plane through apices six times (I think that's right) and closer to a plane passing through flat faces six times.

Here's the interesting part: this number - six times the fundamental - *is* harmonically related to the fundamental; it *is* harmonically related to the note being played, so it isn't just noise.

And here is my speculation: I think this might be the source of an exquisite little edge I've often noticed on low notes, especially when tone/treble isn't too high. Although there are other frequencies on the string, and this can get complicated and even sound like a splash of noise?, that edge adds a lot of intelligibility I think.

**
If a string manufacturer intentionally twists the core before winding, or if the winding process causes it to become twisted, then this could upset the pretty picture above.

Almost all strings are hex core. They hold the wraps better.

You have to intentionally buy the one or two sets of strings a manufacturer makes, that says round core, to get a round core string.

So, im guessing that all string manufacturers are in agreement that a hex core string is better. Better life, better sound, better product, better business. Or, they would have equal options for each. Correct?

 

[Petethebassman]

So, im guessing that all string manufacturers are in agreement that a hex core string is better. Better life, better sound, better product, better business. Or, they would have equal options for each. Correct?

You are just guessing. Just because product A outsells product B doesn't make A better to all, it is good to have options.

 

[Jon Moody]

So, im guessing that all string manufacturers are in agreement that a hex core string is better. Better life, better sound, better product, better business. Or, they would have equal options for each. Correct?

Partly.

Better life? Debatable.

Better sound? Again, debatable.

Better product? No. More consistent? Yes. Since hex cores hold the wraps better, there is less waste from manufacturing. Also, less steps involved in getting the wraps to lay on a hex core string over a round core one. All that translates into less time/labor needed to make strings.

Better business? If profit is your only metric in determining this, then yes. Otherwise, it's debatable.

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

Partly.

Better life? Debatable.

Better sound? Again, debatable.

Better product? No. More consistent? Yes. Since hex cores hold the wraps better, there is less waste from manufacturing. Also, less steps involved in getting the wraps to lay on a hex core string over a round core one. All that translates into less time/labor needed to make strings.

Better business? If profit is your only metric in determining this, then yes. Otherwise, it's debatable.

Yes, debatable on all those notes.

Except that consumer satisfaction and profit is good business.

 

[LetItGrowTone]

I am probably the only person on this forum who feels this way, but I am not sure I can tell much difference between the two. I have two similar basses, one with DR Sunbeams 45-105 and the other with DR Nickle Lo Riders also 45-105 and they feel very similar. In fact I am not sure I could tell the difference if I didn’t already know.

I wrote of what I did to find and to be sure enough about a difference, [ here ], but it wasn't strictly round vs hex but Sunbeams vs Slinkys.

**
I didn't say one was better than the other.

**
My mind and postings had been on round core and even stranded core (Dogal Hellborg Rounds) (and I guess you understand this @iiipopes) for maximum clarity and beauty, as I see it (with some science behind it). But during this period I bought a bass that came with hex core rounds (as almost all do), and this bass really, really sounded thrillingly great in a rock* kind of way, to me, and I mean even with its treble control on zero (yes, I know its greatness is mostly in the pickup type/placement). So, to be honest, I had to stop myself from changing those strings automatically as I normally would have, and went on this detour to study roundwounds, to see if I could prove to myself that some other string is better for me, before "fixing something that isn't broken".

I've posted a lot in praise of flexibility in strings (talking about the construction, not the effect of tension), and although the original post is not about flexibility, it is about a deviation from the ideal that I had previously praised. But instead of criticizing it, I pointed out a mitigating virtue in the possible fact that an edge caused by the hex core *IS harmonically related to the note being played*, and so could be heard as musical, not just a splash of noise.

I mentioned one example, low notes having not too many overtones (maybe because tone/treble are turned down), but still having this edge that I always liked. But on higher notes and/or when many overtones are present it gets messier, but mostly in the transient right after the pick/pluck, and this can be moderated with the fingers as desired. That is appealing. And, I think, "clarity" must probably include "intelligibility", even if it's caused by "distortion". Well, that's Rock* 101.

So, for me, I don't think I will be able to settle on a single favorite string.

*Pardon the oldfangled verbiage.

**
At least one expert showed up and did *not* destroy my original post, so I'll call the thread a success and let the idea in the original post be "good enough for me".

 

[Jon Moody]

Yes, debatable on all those notes.

Except that consumer satisfaction and profit is good business.

You can totally skew consumer satisfaction though. What does it actually mean? We sell more roundwounds than flatwounds, so can I assume that consumers are more satisfied with rounds? Or is that because by and large, consumers change their roundwounds on average 10:1 instead of flats?

Most went to hex because it was easier to produce; that's fairly easy to prove. A couple companies will tell you that it makes no discernible difference either. That part, is debatable.

 

[Vinny_G]

I could see if you're mostly a pick player that it wouldn't be a real big difference.

It's when I play with a pick that I feel the difference the most.

 

[LetItGrowTone]

I was disappointed for a while because I couldn't hear any difference between round core and hex, at least in the specific case of Hi-Beams vs SS Lo-Riders (mounted E,D vs A,G and A,G vs E,D on two basses, as I said), and was going to say to the thread "oh, never mind".

But then I figured out how to hear the difference between Roto 66 and SS Lo-Riders (mixed-mounted that way on two other basses), and it became clear that SS Lo-Riders are just milder in this regard than Roto 66, and that's why I couldn't hear it.

The mid growl of Roto 66 is a distortion, I guess, but it is not unmusical, as it is harmonically related to the note being played. So I'll stick with the theory in the original post as a mental model. Might not be actually true.

 

[Arthur U. Poon]

The only round core set that I’ve tried were a set Fodera Nickels, and this was a couple of years ago. I liked their sound, and they had a really good lifespan. But their tension, especially for my fretting hand just felt felt odd to me.

I prefer a stiffer feeling string, with higher tension, so hex cores are my personal preference.

I’ve read some brands of round core strings have a stiffer feel, (GHS’ round core offerings, for example) but I’m very accustomed to, -and satisfied with the sound and feeling of my favorite hex core sets, so I’ll stick with them.

 

[Arthur U. Poon]

I think we have a consensus that hex core and round core sound a little different, with round core often described as sounding smoother, but haven't talked about it much. I read - just a blurb in a string manufacturer's marketing verbiage I'm pretty sure - that a round core has "no preferred plane of vibration" (I think it said "axis", but I'd rather say plane).

So they're saying, and this seems reasonable, that a hex core string bends easier across the flat faces of the hex and harder across the six apices, as it's thicker there.

Now let's imagine that only the fundamental is on the string, and suppose that the string is not vibrating in a plane, but in an oval (which is probably always the case).

So each time around the oval its path passes closer to a plane through apices six times (I think that's right) and closer to a plane passing through flat faces six times.

Here's the interesting part: this number - six times the fundamental - *is* harmonically related to the fundamental; it *is* harmonically related to the note being played, so it isn't just noise.

And here is my speculation: I think this might be the source of an exquisite little edge I've often noticed on low notes, especially when tone/treble isn't too high. Although there are other frequencies on the string, and this can get complicated and even sound like a splash of noise?, that edge adds a lot of intelligibility I think.

**
If a string manufacturer intentionally twists the core before winding, or if the winding process causes it to become twisted, then this could upset the pretty picture above.

Those are some interesting observations! Very thought provoking. It sounds similar to the development of Rotosound’s Swing Bass 66’s between Rotosound’s founder, James How, and John Entwistle.

I remember reading an interview with John Entwistle, that went into a bit more of the details in regards to his contribution to the development and the refinement of Rotosound’s Swing Bass 66 set.

James How provided John with samples of strings that had different gauges of core wire, along with different gauges of finished strings to try. John noticed that he preferred the sound of the strings that had a certain vibrating pattern, which he pointed out to Mr. How. After a few more tweaks, they developed the final version of Swing Bass strings that sounded the best to John.

So, it seems to me that your observations and theories about vibrating patterns are onto something.
Kudos!

 

[Luckydog]

Definitely thought-provoking. I wonder if your theory about differences in round core vs hex core string vibration can be applied to a potential for the hex core to break more readily than round core, due to the ability of a round core to vibrate more evenly across its cross section than the hex core string that might (?) tend to crack or deform more readily at the sharp core edges of the cross section. Oh well..Saturday morning theoretical fizziks. See, this is why nobody would ever let someone like me get near a space shuttle design team.

 

[buldog5151bass]

I am probably the only person on this forum who feels this way, but I am not sure I can tell much difference between the two. I have two similar basses, one with DR Sunbeams 45-105 and the other with DR Nickle Lo Riders also 45-105 and they feel very similar. In fact I am not sure I could tell the difference if I didn’t already know.

To me, the biggest difference is in how stiff they are. I love the soft Sunbeams, but they are too floppy for me. Lo Riders sound close (not quite as warm, especially when new), but they feel much better to me to play.

 

[woodyng2]

To me, the biggest difference is in how stiff they are. I love the soft Sunbeams, but they are too floppy for me. Lo Riders sound close (not quite as warm, especially when new), but they feel much better to me to play.

This is the primary reason I’ve gravitated towards and use roundcore strings, both round and flatwound.
I find most hexcore strings too stiff, tension-y, and inflexible for playing comfort. (Even when trying lower gauges). I have arthritis, and I play with a fairly soft touch, so, the flexibility and responsiveness of the roundcore strings really works for me.