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A "tone is in the hands" story...

#41
dbsfgyd1 said:
Obviously knowing what you are doing playing give you a huge leg up, and true, a Peavey TNT can be had cheap currently, but those were really good sounding amps. I will say this, with my first bass amp cir 1968, a Lafayette (A vanity line for an electronics store long out of business, and who knows what company actually made it), there is no way you were going to get a respectable sound out of it Compared to my Eden gear regardless how well you play. JMO.
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Yes, definitely talking "basic necessities" fulfilled, such as an amp that can produce enough low.

I've stayed away from the "refined" amp market because I don't need super tone shaping nor advanced preamps. I've carried my tone with me since forever, in different devices, lately either a Zoom MS-60B or a B1X Four (have a rack with a SansAmp RBI+Hartke 3500 head+wireless+tuner that hasn't left a stprqge for years, those pedals can do the same thing for me OK). With a pedal I can get away with any amp that can produce enough clean volume with good lowend authority and minimal EQ capabilities. That's why i never felt the need to spend past Peavey or Hartke, cheap yet loud and reliable. I can play with another band's bass amp easily this way or use one or both my TNT-150s, the only "stack" I'd take out on a gig these days.

tnt_stack.jpg
 
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#43
andruca said:
Yes, definitely talking "basic necessities" fulfilled, such as an amp that can produce enough low.

I've stayed away from the "refined" amp market because I don't need super tone shaping nor advanced preamps. I've carried my tone with me since forever, in different devices, lately either a Zoom MS-60B or a B1X Four (have a rack with a SansAmp RBI+Hartke 3500 head+wireless+tuner that hasn't left a stprqge for years, those pedals can do the same thing for me OK). With a pedal I can get away with any amp that can produce enough clean volume with good lowend authority and minimal EQ capabilities. That's why i never felt the need to spend past Peavey or Hartke, cheap yet loud and reliable. I can play with another band's bass amp easily this way or use one or both my TNT-150s, the only "stack" I'd take out on a gig these days.

View attachment 3881816
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Good response. I've always thought those TNT amps were highly under rated.

I don't have experience using A Hartke head, but I have used a couple cabs, 10" x-drive type and found the low end to be somewhat spongy , not well defined. Of course, I didn't spend anywhere the amount of time trying to get them dialed in as I have with my Eden gear.
 
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#44
@kesslari, you should have charged a more significant increase, for his own benefit.

There's some pretty solid studies showing that we perceive quality and often report satisfaction with an item based on how much we pay. Think of how happy and content he might be if you'd charged him $200. :D

@andruca
Nice to see you rocking the Peavey.
My gigging amp is an Ampeg Rocketbass. Reliable, looks great and I can pick them up for $300 anytime if it dies. For the music I'm playing (country and classic rock in small venues), I simply don't need ultra hi-fi tone or more volume. Would be nice if it were lighter (something I'm sure you can relate too) but a set of casters makes it plenty easy to move around.

Cheap tiny starters aside, bass amps across the board sound pretty good for what I need. If I spend more on an amp, it will be more a matter of weight and transportability than a need for better tone.
 
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#47
kesslari said:
My wife reminded me. Many years ago I was playing doumbek (Arab goblet drum - lots of fun) in a Middle-Eastern band, as well as in a World Music fusion band. Both were playing at a festival in Santa Barbara, on consecutive days.
We finished our set, first day, and a guy comes out of the audience and says "I want to buy your drum". I tell him there's a store literally 2 blocks away that sells them and he can buy one brand new. He says no, he wants to buy *mine* because he likes how it sounds.
I tell him I really don't want to sell it because I'd have to go buy another one. He's insistent.
I say "It costs $110 brand new just down the street. If I sell you this one I'd charge you $125. It's really not worth the extra, just go buy a new one." He remains insistent and counts out the money.
OK, two blocks for $15 - at that point in my life, a good deal. I took it.
Next day we're performing - finish our set, same guy comes up and says "how much for THAT one?" I ask what the problem was, he says "I took yours home but it doesn't sound as good"...

Sigh... and :D
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good story
:thumbsup:
 
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#48
bassdude51 said:
I realize that "the tone is in the hands" is an expression. Hands have no tone. Once we press a string down on a fret, the bass is making the tone.
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Really, just by pressing a string on a fret? So i waste all my years to bring up a second hand onto my playing; i'll have to start up at zero ... you revolutionize all bass playing and perhaps the guitar's as well. :woot:
 
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#49
bassdude51 said:
I realize that "the tone is in the hands" is an expression. Hands have no tone. Once we press a string down on a fret, the bass is making the tone. Now with a fretless, yeah, there might be some tonal difference with fat fingers vs bony little fingers.

The expression might be more accurate to say that, "the tone is in the personalty or style" of the player.

Another thought.

There is a big difference in hearing ourselves play bass and hearing our bass being played. Huh? I'm like playing my bass in the living room and as usual, I'm not totally happy with my sound or tone. Seems like I'm never happy with my sound or tone. But then, I hand my bass over to my son, volume, settings and everything the same (I pluck with fingers, he plucks with fingers). I walk off away from him or to the other room and WOW!!!!!!!...........my bass sounds fantastic! And it's not because my son's hands are radically different than mine. It's because I can hear my bass 100% with my ears and mind when someone else is playing my bass with my settings. My sound is great!

IMO, it's like the difference in hearing yourself speak from your mouth vs hearing a recording of your voice.

Nice thread! Great story about the doumbek (Arab goblet drum) and the impression you made on that fellow. Thanks for sharing.
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When I seriously audition an instrument, I generally have someone else play it first, especially if it is acoustic. I want to have some objectivity. An acoustic guitar sounds very different from the front than from the player's perspective. I then dive in myself.

But electric instruments have less of that real-world physics-of-sound thang going on. But yes, one's brain functions differently when playing a bass versus listening to the bass played by someone else. All sorts of things go on between the ears due to the player being different from you.

I find that the odd dynamic goes on even when listening to a recording of one's bass versus playing the same passage. Even when eliminating the effects of a recording (which are significant) by using a looper to reproduce the same line...it still sounds different to me. To me, that just shows what a subjective thing our brain is.
 
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#50
kesslari said:
My wife reminded me. Many years ago I was playing doumbek (Arab goblet drum - lots of fun) in a Middle-Eastern band, as well as in a World Music fusion band. Both were playing at a festival in Santa Barbara, on consecutive days.
We finished our set, first day, and a guy comes out of the audience and says "I want to buy your drum". I tell him there's a store literally 2 blocks away that sells them and he can buy one brand new. He says no, he wants to buy *mine* because he likes how it sounds.
I tell him I really don't want to sell it because I'd have to go buy another one. He's insistent.
I say "It costs $110 brand new just down the street. If I sell you this one I'd charge you $125. It's really not worth the extra, just go buy a new one." He remains insistent and counts out the money.
OK, two blocks for $15 - at that point in my life, a good deal. I took it.
Next day we're performing - finish our set, same guy comes up and says "how much for THAT one?" I ask what the problem was, he says "I took yours home but it doesn't sound as good"...

Sigh... and :D
Click to expand...

How ironic that one of the greatest TB posts of all time...is about a drum...
 
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#52
bassdude51 said:
I realize that "the tone is in the hands" is an expression. Hands have no tone. Once we press a string down on a fret, the bass is making the tone. Now with a fretless, yeah, there might be some tonal difference with fat fingers vs bony little fingers.

The expression might be more accurate to say that, "the tone is in the personalty or style" of the player.

Another thought.

There is a big difference in hearing ourselves play bass and hearing our bass being played. Huh? I'm like playing my bass in the living room and as usual, I'm not totally happy with my sound or tone. Seems like I'm never happy with my sound or tone. But then, I hand my bass over to my son, volume, settings and everything the same (I pluck with fingers, he plucks with fingers). I walk off away from him or to the other room and WOW!!!!!!!...........my bass sounds fantastic! And it's not because my son's hands are radically different than mine. It's because I can hear my bass 100% with my ears and mind when someone else is playing my bass with my settings. My sound is great!

IMO, it's like the difference in hearing yourself speak from your mouth vs hearing a recording of your voice.

.
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Not so sure about this. The part I'd agree with is that personality or style will drive the train. But all the personality and intentionality in the universe isn't gonna manifest unless the mechanics of pressing that finger into that string and fretboard have been worked out. In other words, touch and technique have to be developed so that the intended expression can be achieved. Conversely, technique, without intentionality, ain't much fun, either.

As for hearing someone else play your rig - you'll certainly get a ballpark sense of your rig's capability; yet, if a virtuoso and a hack take turns, you'll certainly hear a difference. But I agree that hearing, independent of hearing and playing, is a whole different perspective.
 
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#56
BergerHead said:
Really, just by pressing a string on a fret? So i waste all my years to bring up a second hand onto my playing; i'll have to start up at zero ... you revolutionize all bass playing and perhaps the guitar's as well. :woot:
Click to expand...

Man, this is the challenge with posting on TalkBass. Being misunderstood or perhaps not expressing ourselves as good as we should have in the first place.

First off, I love your 2 quotes. Plastic Phantasic (seems to be a reference to the old Jefferson Airplane song which I love.) And, I hate Facebook.....(emoji). ME TOO!!!!!!!!!

If Woober Goober #1 frets A on the 5th fret of the E string and Woober Goober #2 frets A on the 5th fret of the E string and Woober Goober #3 frets A on the 5th fret of the E string and finally Woober Goober #4 frets A on the 5th fret of the E string and they play an A whole note................there's gonna be a difference in the tone of the A note based on the flesh, bones and blood of each Woober Goober's hand?

In the pure mechanical sense, there's not gonna be a tonal difference in the 4 different hands.

Now, in the artistic sense of style, plucking power and a bunch of other variables, yeah, there's gonna be a tonal difference.

WOW. Is tone in the hands? Yes and no.

Woober Goober is a reference to a J. Geils song, I Musta Got Lost.....live.

 
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#59
bassdude51 said:
If Woober Goober #1 frets A on the 5th fret of the E string and Woober Goober #2 frets A on the 5th fret of the E string and Woober Goober #3 frets A on the 5th fret of the E string and finally Woober Goober #4 frets A on the 5th fret of the E string and they play an A whole note................there's gonna be a difference in the tone of the A note based on the flesh, bones and blood of each Woober Goober's hand?
Click to expand...

Yes, quite possibly. You're overlooking the tonal effects of right hand technique. Which are substantial.
 
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