A Vintage Bass

[tpaul]

Lots of players consider the post-2012 basses from Fender to be excellent.

But if you want "vintage" there are lots of dates that have varying degrees of significance, as noted by several posters above. Some are more significant than others, because they deal with actual changes in the way the bass was designed, rather than changes in company ownership or who was hired when. For example, there are years when pickups were changed, neck profiles were changed, body woods changed, fret wire changed, etc. Some of these changes can make a real difference in the way the bass feels and sounds. I'm not aware of a definitive time line that tracks these changes... that would be a good project for some TBer who has more knowledge and time than I do (or maybe it already exists and I just haven't stumbled on it).

Bottom line is that if there's a particular style you want (for example, you are looking for a fat neck, small fret wire, rosewood board and through-body stringing) you should figure out which years of production to look at, and go from there. But your best bet in all cases is to try before you buy if at all possible... you'll have a happier life with fewer disappointments.

 

[Blaargh]

With age do they develop traits that can only come with age? Like playability, sound / tone, feel???

As wood ages the moisture content decreases, so it's less affected by temperature changes and the tone will change. it's not a very noticeable change though (one of those things that I'm pretty sure gear snobs exaggerate), differences in tone between modern and vintage Ps are mostly down to how the pickups are wound. Some players really like the feel of nicely worn necks, but I'm not too fussed.

Personally I would only go vintage if you can find a beat up 'player grade' vintage, or if you're set on a discontinued model. Vintage basses are much more expensive than I really think they're worth, especially Precisions and Jazzes. Seventies/early eighties Gibsons are a bit more unique and priced much more reasonably, I'd get one of those instead (or get some crazy Japanese thing for a steal. Univox Hi-Flyers are awesome).

 

[DavC]

being an older fart ... i've had many older Fenders , back into the 60's ( never any from the 50's ) ..

i think finding a a slightly older Fender , without actually playing it first , .. the 80's MIJ models are very consistent ... my 1985 " 75 RI " was very very nice ... !

there's just lots of things that can make any bass 'feel' better or worse in someone's hand ... trying to pinpoint that specific thing seems very difficult in deed .. !

 

[Big Kahuna]

OK, my 2 cents-

I had three "vintage" jazz basses, 62, 65, & 69. I recently sold the 69.
Before selling it I tried it out strung with the same strings as my keepers. Literally NO comparison in tone, the '69 was nice and all, but the earlier jazzes just SOUND BETTER.

This is not said lightly.

I recently did some sessions using the '65, strung with Thomastik 344's, played through a tube compressor and the front end of a GK 700RB, taken there direct to the console.
The producer, who has recorded in all of the major LA studios (Record Plant etc.) and toured for two years as a guitarist opening for Elton John and Plant/Page, said flat out that this bass tone was one of the best he had ever heard.

He produced many hit records, so it's a for real evaluation. He was particularly impressed that no eq or fuss was necessary. Usually he spent a lot of time getting a bass sound he liked. This one was just there, right out of the box.

The reissue vintage pickups from Fender get a lot of the sound of the '65, but not all of it. Something about 50 years of getting soaked with sweat, beer, banged around from gig to gig, smoky halls, etc. That mojo just translates to the sound.

Or so say professional ears. And mine too!

BTW, it was not easy to part with the 69, it is a real looker, all original, closet queen. See below. But it just didn't SOUND AS GOOD.

Best top all-
Kahuna

 

[The Bass Clef]

A lot of pros play vintage Fenders for a reason. You just have to find the right one that fits you. There are plenty of great reissues and modern basses out there too. But if you're attracted to vintage Fenders, then there are a lot of great ones out there that will impress you.

 

[AngelCrusher]

Yep. Hand wound pickups. Good wood. Quality components plus age can many times equate to an amazing tone.

I agree that an avri cant nail a vintage tone but they come close enough for the dollars. The rest is going to boil down to logging hours. Sweating on it. Etc.

There is something about an old bass that plays well. They are magic. But the best stories about them are when people find one for a steal somewhere and don't have to pay top dollar.

 

[GretschWretch]

I too have often wondered if the decline of Fender in the seventies was more due to worn out tooling falling out of spec than management decisions. I have a bought new 2012 MIM Precision as well as 1969 and 1971 Ps bought used (both exhibiting owner abuse) and I would have a hard time believing that the MIM is not at least as well made as the older MIAs.

 

[tpaul]

OK, my 2 cents-

I had three "vintage" jazz basses, 62, 65, & 69. I recently sold the 69.
Before selling it I tried it out strung with the same strings as my keepers. Literally NO comparison in tone, the '69 was nice and all, but the earlier jazzes just SOUND BETTER.

This is not said lightly.

I recently did some sessions using the '65, strung with Thomastik 344's, played through a tube compressor and the front end of a GK 700RB, taken there direct to the console.
The producer, who has recorded in all of the major LA studios (Record Plant etc.) and toured for two years as a guitarist opening for Elton John and Plant/Page, said flat out that this bass tone was one of the best he had ever heard.

He produced many hit records, so it's a for real evaluation. He was particularly impressed that no eq or fuss was necessary. Usually he spent a lot of time getting a bass sound he liked. This one was just there, right out of the box.

The reissue vintage pickups from Fender get a lot of the sound of the '65, but not all of it. Something about 50 years of getting soaked with sweat, beer, banged around from gig to gig, smoky halls, etc. That mojo just translates to the sound.

Or so say professional ears. And mine too!

BTW, it was not easy to part with the 69, it is a real looker, all original, closet queen. See below. But it just didn't SOUND AS GOOD.View attachment 890703

Best top all-
KahunaView attachment 890702

So, do think the '69 would have sounded as good as the '65 if you just kept it four more years?

 

[Big Kahuna]

So, do think the '69 would have sounded as good as the '65 if you just kept it four more years?

Interesting question....but my guess would be no. Perhaps it's simply a matter of pre-CBS vs. a jazz 4 years into the CBS era.

The 69 sounded much thinner. Also more compressed as to sonic range. The 65 has more roundness on the bottom, fatter, and the harmonics/brightness are much more present on the 65. All the same settings, so it's just what's in the guitar/pups.

As another poster mentions, it is sweat and all those countless hours thumping away which can contribute. The pups on the 65 are rusty, and perhaps even shorted out in spots. Somehow it all comes together. I don't think this '65 is unique in that regard either. Many old Fender jazz basses are just "right".

A few years back at another LA studio some guys and I did a side by side with the same '65 compared to a bunch of modern fenders/80's jazzes/custom shops. The harmonic content, and also the clarity and pleasing nature of the high end was much more pronounced on the '65, the low end also.

Now if the '69 had been beat to guanno like the '65 has, perhaps some of the same mojo would have come to be a part of her too. But I kept the '69 for gigs where guitar security might be lax, and we had a good crew. Thus it just didn't get played much.

Wish I could answer more effectively. But honestly I think the old vintage stuff is popular for a reason.

One producer described the tone of the '65 as "world class". Again just my 2 cents. But that producer liked the '65 jazz better than a Yamaha TRB 4P or a one off LeFay bass we also tried.

The LeFay is a very beautiful and versatile instrument. So if you are just going on sound for the buck, a vintage Fender actually holds up well against a mid 4 figures $ LeFay.

Best-
Kahuna

 

[Kukulkan61]

Any Vintage bass could be good or bad regardless of the year it was made, every bass is different and has its own nuances about it from the wood to the glued joints to the hardware to the electronics and to the craftsmanship and especially to how its set up, you could play a 77 Fender P bass and it just kills and you can play a 63 P bass and its a dog or vice-versa its all a gamble its better to play them and compare and pick the one that hits you in the heart but make sure they are set up nice because you can turn a poor set up bass into a killer bass by just a little tweaking...

 

[SirMjac28]

Hi. you can edit the post instead of relpying to it .
I have a 78 P with flats. Probably there are hundred of better basses, but to me it plays amazing and feels amazing. 4 strings, more than enough. A lot of wise opinions on this thread.

+1 I have a 78` with rounds that's the best P I've played so far and I'm old to remember when pawn shops were full of Pre-CBS Fenders it wasn't until baby boomers looking to relive their glory days did they become unicorns driving the prices up.

 

[Agosix]

Recently tried a Bluesman Bass and it's well worth the money over buying a vintage Fender by a longshot.

 

[GranSportMan]

I have a number of basses. For example, I have a 2012 wine-stained Fender Jazz FSR that plays like butter. I also have a Geddy Lee CIJ that is an awesome bass. However, I would trade all of my basses if it meant that I could keep my vintage 1975 Fender Jazz with the 4-bolt neck. It is by far the best electric bass I have ever played, period. I am so glad I found it and decided to drop the money on it. It is THAT good. Of course, this is only my opinion and does NOT mean every 75 Jazz with a 4-bolt neck is good. You need to go out and try a bunch of vintage and new basses (like I did) before you can find the right one. Not all basses are the same so you need to find the one that is right for you!

 

[Blueinred]

I own a '81 Kramer Pioneer Imperial which is an all wood (including the neck) PJ with in/out phase switches. They were/are great sounding, nicely crafted basses. The neck never moves and can hold tune, laying in it's case, for months on end. It sounds even better now, tone wise, than new. Just thicker, richer all around. So, maybe solid body electrics do settle in over time. One thing you might consider with an older bass is how much it was played, as I feel a frequently played guitar is a "plus" factor in improving with age, barring abuse. What no one has mentioned so far is that vintage Fenders tend not to lose value where as newer boutique, high dollar basses devalue slightly, depending on make, model, features, etc..Just take a look at the classifieds. '70s Fenders that were selling for $1800 five years ago are going for $2300+ today and $6000 Fodera's are up for $3500 sometimes. Just sayin'.....

 

[Bill Whitehurst]

Being new or old is not the only factor in play.
Each and every piece of wood is different.
That will determine attack, sustain and resonance.

I do believe that older wood has dried and become
both lighter and more stable, sometimes more resonant.

That part is hard to come by in a newer bass.

So is mojo.

That said, you can find some very good newer basses and some old dogs.
They vary and always have.

One factor you need to work out before seriously looking for a vintage bass
is do you want it to collect or to play?
An all original vintage bass will cost you big bux.
A refinished one, with maybe some new tuners or whatever it takes to
keep it playing after a million gigs will cost way less.
It won't be the head turner that the collector bass will be,
but might be a killer tone machine.

 

[valloti]

What about those Japanese old Fenders and also the lawsuit japanese 70' and 80' basses like the Tokay? I've heard they're excellent instruments and they never go over one third or fourth of a mid/late 70' mia Fender.