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A world without money? Everything is free?

#42
tastybasslines said:
Having more than another person is not only about greed.

Lets say that in a flash, there is a massive nuclear holocaust, and all money systems are wiped out. Everyone gets to start over with an equal plot of land. The hard workers and smarter people are eventually going to produce more crops (read wealth) than others.

There will never be equality and who even knows if that's a good thing.
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You're absolutely right. The free world thing would likely not work but I don't see why a compromise of at least living for free can't be met. I wouldn't mind working to earn a nice bass but having to work my ass off just have a roof, food, and water for my family seems stupid. Getting off topic I guess. Good discussion though :D
 
#44
Oneirogenic said:
So your monetary worth and material possessions define you? I'd rather have an "average" net worth and be the cool human being that I am and have all the things money can't buy. Money didn't buy my musical talent, my wife, my kids, my friends, my songs, my body, etc. Yeah, I like my nice stuff too but I'm too much of a humanist to say I like my stuff and my net worth too much so everyone who doesn't even stand a chance at having what I have is just going to have to suffer.
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My possessions do not define me. I have a great family and great friends, but I also have a "better than average" lifestyle because I worked hard and made smart choices. I shouldn't have to defend myself because you think that makes me materialistic.
 
#45
duff beer said:
My possessions do not define me. I have a great family and great friends, but I also have a "better than average" lifestyle because I worked hard and made smart choices. I shouldn't have to defend myself because you think that makes me materialistic.
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I didn't think you were. Just that what you said made you sound that way. If you can read through your post objectively you might see how someone could think that. I've worked hard too but many people don't get the opportunity to work to earn anything.
 
#46
Oneirogenic said:
I wouldn't mind working to earn a nice bass but having to work my ass off just have a roof, food, and water for my family seems stupid. Getting off topic I guess. Good discussion though :D
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Man has always had to work his ass off for these things,
the difference is that the work used to be to build his own roof, grow his own food, and well his own water for his family.
These days we work for someone who else, who controls how much money we receive (evidently, all too often too little) to pay for these things, and the number of people with their hand in the pot continues to grow.
 
#48
Oneirogenic said:
having to work my ass off just have a roof, food, and water for my family seems stupid
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But building houses, growing food and purifying water takes work. Why is it "stupid" that you should work to give the people who do those things something of value in return?

The plan outlined in those pages seems to be:

1. Everybody starts playing nice.
2. Magic robots will do everything.

Neither of which I expect to see any time in the next 200 years.
 
#50
MatticusMania said:
Man has always had to work his ass off for these things,
the difference is that the work used to be to build his own roof, grow his own food, and well his own water for his family.
These days we work for someone who else, who controls how much money we receive (evidently, all too often too little) to pay for these things, and the number of people with their hand in the pot continues to grow.
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Yes, I agree.

Work back then was backbreaking, and lead to an average shorter lifespan. Nowadays, humanity's mantra is to work less and receive more.
 
#51
MatticusMania said:
Man has always had to work his ass off for these things,
the difference is that the work used to be to build his own roof, grow his own food, and well his own water for his family.
These days we work for someone who else, who controls how much money we receive (evidently, all too often too little) to pay for these things, and the number of people with their hand in the pot continues to grow.
Click to expand...

Yep. It's how specialization is possible which allows for us to bind together as a civilization, rather than every family having to exist independently as a small separate society.
 
#52
My gal took a month off work ( vacation ) to look for work. She is now in the fourth week and has been submitting 8 to 10 applications a day. She's burned out in her field and wants to change sooner than later. She has been called exactly once for an interview next month.

That there are far less jobs than qualified ( or over qualified ) people is a reality.
 
#53
MatticusMania said:
Man has always had to work his ass off for these things,
the difference is that the work used to be to build his own roof, grow his own food, and well his own water for his family.
These days we work for someone who else, who controls how much money we receive (evidently, all too often too little) to pay for these things, and the number of people with their hand in the pot continues to grow.
Click to expand...

This day and age with how we've advanced as a species providing basic living is hardly difficult at all. Nothing like how it was at the dawn of our species. We should be working on further advancement of our whole species. Not the Almighty dollar while many starve.
 
#54
Oneirogenic said:
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What do you guys think of this? It seems too Utopian just because of the massive paradigm shift required to implement it on a global level. But....it actually seems possible if there was some sort of massive economic collapse causing the world to have to eliminate money to fix it. I'm not super educated on this stuff but I want hear everyone's thoughts. Sorry if this is too political...
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Not a single Utopia has worked because of human nature. Someone ALWAYS wants to be in charge and some others don't like to be told to do things. Also, while barter is a good way to operate outside of a society's tax system, everything being free wouldn't work because people want to own things and others like to take from others, without caring about who owns whatever it is that they want.
 
#55
Oneirogenic said:
I didn't think you were. Just that what you said made you sound that way. If you can read through your post objectively you might see how someone could think that. I've worked hard too but many people don't get the opportunity to work to earn anything.
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Sometimes it's hard to say what one intends with a few sentences...a couple words in the wrong place or a sentence that could have been better constructed can give the wrong intent.

I do think that most people who have worked hard and done well for themselves deserve what they have...they were willing to make the sacrifices and do what it takes to make it better for themselves and their family. If everything was free, it takes away the incentive for people to make that extra effort. Why work harder if there is no reward?? I said I didn't want to be average because I believe that I have performed above average during my life, and therefore, myself and my family deserves to reap the rewards.
 
#57
UncleFluffy said:
Just so that I can reply to your argument better, what is your definition of "basic living" ?

(FWIW Mine would be: food, water, shelter, healthcare, some degree of education, fairly reliable supply of energy in some form)
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This pretty much. Health care seems tricky but the rest don't seem hard to handle. If all the pointless jobs that revolve specifically around money disappeared and everybody focused instead on making sure everybody was taken care of it would be possible. It's pretty much a nice fantasy at this point even though it's quite possible IMO. I could be wrong. Loving this discussion.
 
#58
Oneirogenic said:
This pretty much. Health care seems tricky but the rest don't seem hard to handle.
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Then I think we disagree about the difficulty. I see adequate provision of any of those things as one of the biggest challenges facing the human race.

Whether removing "money" from our conceptual toolbox would make it easier or not is open to debate, but I can't see how. Could you pick one of those - water, say - and walk us through how it would work without money?
 
#59
tastybasslines said:
Lets say that in a flash, there is a massive nuclear holocaust, and all money systems are wiped out. Everyone gets to start over with an equal plot of land. The hard workers and smarter people are eventually going to produce more crops (read wealth) than others.
Click to expand...

Hmm... I work at a farm and I score above average in intelligence tests...

LET THE BOMBS RAIN, THE WORLD SHALL BE MINE!!!
 

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