Achieving valve tone with solid state plus..?

[NoiseNinja]

Aaaaa, the sweet sound of MORE!!!!

Hahaha, I know thee well

No you don't, in fact it seems to me that you have absolutely no clue of what he is actually talking about.

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

No you don't, in fact it seems to me that you have absolutely no clue of what he is actually talking about.

Ok

 

[Ethereal Thorn]

Yes, both are part of my main "ampless" setup, the Art MP Tube preamp being the last unit in my setup and the Black Finger coming right before it going into the Art, both with their input gain set quite high, just on the verge of breakup when I dig in the hardest.

And it sounds awesome, the Art being a clearer more somewhat slightly more gritty and glassy type of tube coloration and the Black Finger being a warmer ever so slightly compressed type of tube coloration, together just adding the last subtle touch of perfection to my tone that I wouldn't have thought about missing out if I hadn't thought of adding them, and wouldn't really notice was there until removing one or both of them from the equation.

Now I know some people would reply to such with a lost in the mix or no one notice anyway comment, but I am of the opinion that if it matters to you that is what matters the most, and also not much mix to get lost in when playing in a bass/vocals and drums/vocals duo, plus I'd like to think the kind of audience I make music for would in fact be capable of and able to appreciate/ing such thing.

Very cool any pics of your setup? I'm wondering how the Art studio v3 would be with this setup since it has a limiter and eq setting built in too I can imagine that'd be a pretty cool setup too. Although it's abit spendy I do highly recommend checking out the two notes torpedo cab m+ in front of those I use mine as the di for my board it replaced like 5 pedals on my setup alone.

 

[NoiseNinja]

Very cool any pics of your setup? I'm wondering how the Art studio v3 would be with this setup since it has a limiter and eq setting built in too I can imagine that'd be a pretty cool setup too. Although it's abit spendy I do highly recommend checking out the two notes torpedo cab m+ in front of those I use mine as the di for my board it replaced like 5 pedals on my setup alone.

I really have a hard time imagining how I could make my setup sound better and I have no use for a limiter, also prefer a faux EQ based cab sim over a more detailed, but therefor also more intrusive, IR based one, plus the fact that I control the EQ settings myself means I have more precise control over it.

But when that is said a simplification of my current setup while retaining it's full functionality and end result tone would be welcome and no doubt will be what I will try to work in direction of in the future, however I'll have to make due with what I already got to work with for now (which is probably the main reason for my setup having ended up so relatively complicated), as I don't have a lot of money to spare for musical equipment on my budget.

One of the first things I can think of that would simplify quite a bit, while still retaining full functionality, would be replacing all primary EQ stages, basic EQ HPF/LPF cab sim functionality as well as tonal fine adjustments, with the SourceAudio EQ2.


Anyway here's my entire signal chain listed in written form with explanations :

(*pedals listed in [ red/bold/underline text ] are "always on" effects*)


4 string 28,6" scale Ibanez GSRM20 neck + GSRM20B body Mikro Bass (equipped with an EMG Geezer Butler P pickup, wired directly to the output jack socket, and strung with gauge .95 - .72 - .54 - .40 D'Addario XL nickle roundwound steel core strings, tuned in F# standard tuning, 2 half steps above regular 4 string bass E standard tuning) ->>

TC Electronic SpectraComp (always on compressor) ->> TC Electronic Sub'N'Up Mini (always on digital polyphonic octaver, used as an 1 octave up effect mixed with clean bass signal, giving an effect similar to that of an 8 string "octave" bass, with pairs of respectively bass and octave strings) ->> Boss LS-2 [A+B Mix <-> Bypass] (always on, parallel effect loops mixer/switch) ={ [Loop A Send] ->> Joyo Orange Juice (always on low gain overdrive, really primarily used to enhance harmonic content, [Tone] set at about 11 o'clock, [Voice] set to boost a wide curve around a 800Hz center frequency about +3dB pre gain stage, always mixed with clean {bass+octave up} signal from parallel effects [Loop B]) ->> [Loop A Return] ->||<- [Loop B Send] ->> (empty effects loop for clean {bass+octave up} signal blend with Orange Juice in effects [Loop A]) ->> [Loop B Return] ([Loop A] + [Loop B] mixed at an about 55/45 ratio) }=>> Boss LS-2 [A+B Mix <-> Bypass] (parallel effect loops mixer/switch) ={ [Loop A Send] Behringer SF300 Super Fuzz (Boss FZ-2/Univox Super Fuzz clone, octave fuzz, always mixed with clean {bass+octave up} signal from parallel effects [Loop B]) ->> Joyo Orange Juice (lower medium gain grindy kind of overdrive, always used stacked into the Metal Zone in front of it, and always mixed with the Rat distortion in parallel effects [Loop B]) ->> Boss MT-2 Metal Zone (distortion, used with a relatively low gain setting, and always used with the Orange Juice behind it stacked into it, and always used mixed with the Rat distortion in parallel effects [Loop B]) ->> Behringer VP1 Vintage Phaser (EHX Small Stone clone, used in the high feedback and deep sweep mode, always used boosted by the Hotone Trem in front of it, and almost always used mixed with flanger in parallel effects [Loop B]) ->> Hotone Trem (Tremolo with rate and depth at 0, always used to boost either the Behringer phaser placed behind it and make it a bit brighter, since it's a few dB above unity gain when engaged and got a tone control) ->> [Loop A Return] ->||<- [Loop B Send] ->> Mosky Black Rat (RAT clone, in original classic RAT [Vintage] mode, quite raunchy, fuzz-esque, high gain distortion, always used mixed with the Metal Zone distortion in parallel effects [Loop A]) ->> Monarch MFL-22 (flanger, most often used mixed with phaser in parallel effects [Loop A]) ->> [Loop B Return] ([Loop A] + [Loop B] mixed at an about 50/50 ratio) }=>> Artec SE-EQ8 Graphic EQ (always on 8 band graphic equalizer: [100Hz LoShlv= +1dB ; 170Hz (low Q)= 0 ; 280Hz (high Q)= +3dB ; 500Hz (high Q)= 0 ; 800Hz (high Q)= +1dB ; 1.4kHz (high Q)= +3dB ; 2.3 (low Q)= +3dB ; 5kHz HiShlv= -10dB]) ->> Zoom G1Xon (Used for an always on 2 band parametric equalizer [Freq=63Hz Q=4 Boost=+1dB ; [I]Freq=200 Q=2 Boost=+1dB], and additionally used for 3 patches (all including the EQ at the end of the chain), which respectively are as follows: Tremolo+VintageCE (Boss CE-1 emulation), chorus patch :-: Plate Reverb+HD Hall Reverb+Tape Delay, prominent reverb patch :-: Plate Reverb+HD Hall Reverb+Tape Delay, extremely thick lush reverb patch, used as a reverb pad effect with volume swells) [/I]->> NUX Tape Core Deluxe (Roland Space Echo tape delay emulation) ->> Zoom MS-70CDR (always on 2 band parametric EQ [Freq=400Hz Q=2 Boost=+1dB ; [I]Freq=1kHz Q=4 Boost=+1dB], subtle plate reverb, and faux, EQ based, cab sim, consisting of a 2 band parametric EQ set as follows: [Freq=12kHz Q=1 Cut=-18dB ; [I]Freq=20kHz Q=0.5 Cut=-20dB], plus a lush Church Reverb model that can be switched on/off)[/I][/I]

->> Band rehearsal/jamming/gigging // ->> Home practice / Home recordings :

->> EHX Black Finger (always on tube driven optical compressor, dialed in to a quite subtle compression, primarily functioning as a tube preamp stage) ->> Art Tube MP Project Series (tube preamp, with HPF at 40Hz) // ->> Band rehearsal/jamming/gigging ->> [Effects Return] (poweramp input) of Peavey Solo Special 112 (160W, solid state guitar combo, with the build in 4 Ohm 12" speaker unit disconnected and instead hooked up to a The Box PA 502 PA speaker) ->> The Box PA 502 (full range PA speaker with 1x 15" + 1.7" high frequency tweeter horn) // ->> Home practice / Home recordings ->> Behringer Eurorack UB1202 (mixer) ->> [ ->> Sennheiser HD 380 Pro (headphones) ]/[ ->> Behringer Tube Ultragain MIC100 (tube preamp) ->> M-Audio Fast Track (sound interface) ->> Reaper (DAW) ]


The EQ'ing done with the above setup approximately forming an EQ curve looking like this (some of it is qualified guesswork, since I don't have the exact Q and gain settings for some of the frequency bands used) :

​

And here's the most recent picture of my setup, though as you can tell from the signal chain explanation above it is a bit outdated, and also I actually have a proper pedal board on the way with the mail service to fit all this stuff on (in fact I should receive sometime tomorrow) :

 

[Ethereal Thorn]

I really have a hard time imagining how I could make my setup sound better and I have no use for a limiter, also prefer a faux EQ based cab sim over a more detailed, but therefor also more intrusive, IR based one, plus the fact that I control the EQ settings myself means I have more precise control over it.

But when that is said a simplification of my current setup while retaining it's full functionality and end result tone would be welcome and no doubt will be what I will try to work in direction of in the future, however I'll have to make due with what I already got to work with for now (which is probably the main reason for my setup having ended up so relatively complicated), as I don't have a lot of money to spare for musical equipment on my budget.

One of the first things I can think of that would simplify quite a bit, while still retaining full functionality, would be replacing all primary EQ stages, basic EQ HPF/LPF cab sim functionality as well as tonal fine adjustments, with the SourceAudio EQ2.


Anyway here's my entire signal chain listed in written form with explanations :

(*pedals listed in [ red/bold/underline text ] are "always on" effects*)


4 string 28,6" scale Ibanez GSRM20 neck + GSRM20B body Mikro Bass (equipped with an EMG Geezer Butler P pickup, wired directly to the output jack socket, and strung with gauge .95 - .72 - .54 - .40 D'Addario XL nickle roundwound steel core strings, tuned in F# standard tuning, 2 half steps above regular 4 string bass E standard tuning) ->>

TC Electronic SpectraComp (always on compressor) ->> TC Electronic Sub'N'Up Mini (always on digital polyphonic octaver, used as an 1 octave up effect mixed with clean bass signal, giving an effect similar to that of an 8 string "octave" bass, with pairs of respectively bass and octave strings) ->> Boss LS-2 [A+B Mix <-> Bypass] (always on, parallel effect loops mixer/switch) ={ [Loop A Send] ->> Joyo Orange Juice (always on low gain overdrive, really primarily used to enhance harmonic content, [Tone] set at about 11 o'clock, [Voice] set to boost a wide curve around a 800Hz center frequency about +3dB pre gain stage, always mixed with clean {bass+octave up} signal from parallel effects [Loop B]) ->> [Loop A Return] ->||<- [Loop B Send] ->> (empty effects loop for clean {bass+octave up} signal blend with Orange Juice in effects [Loop A]) ->> [Loop B Return] ([Loop A] + [Loop B] mixed at an about 55/45 ratio) }=>> Boss LS-2 [A+B Mix <-> Bypass] (parallel effect loops mixer/switch) ={ [Loop A Send] Behringer SF300 Super Fuzz (Boss FZ-2/Univox Super Fuzz clone, octave fuzz, always mixed with clean {bass+octave up} signal from parallel effects [Loop B]) ->> Joyo Orange Juice (lower medium gain grindy kind of overdrive, always used stacked into the Metal Zone in front of it, and always mixed with the Rat distortion in parallel effects [Loop B]) ->> Boss MT-2 Metal Zone (distortion, used with a relatively low gain setting, and always used with the Orange Juice behind it stacked into it, and always used mixed with the Rat distortion in parallel effects [Loop B]) ->> Behringer VP1 Vintage Phaser (EHX Small Stone clone, used in the high feedback and deep sweep mode, always used boosted by the Hotone Trem in front of it, and almost always used mixed with flanger in parallel effects [Loop B]) ->> Hotone Trem (Tremolo with rate and depth at 0, always used to boost either the Behringer phaser placed behind it and make it a bit brighter, since it's a few dB above unity gain when engaged and got a tone control) ->> [Loop A Return] ->||<- [Loop B Send] ->> Mosky Black Rat (RAT clone, in original classic RAT [Vintage] mode, quite raunchy, fuzz-esque, high gain distortion, always used mixed with the Metal Zone distortion in parallel effects [Loop A]) ->> Monarch MFL-22 (flanger, most often used mixed with phaser in parallel effects [Loop A]) ->> [Loop B Return] ([Loop A] + [Loop B] mixed at an about 50/50 ratio) }=>> Artec SE-EQ8 Graphic EQ (always on 8 band graphic equalizer: [100Hz LoShlv= +1dB ; 170Hz (low Q)= 0 ; 280Hz (high Q)= +3dB ; 500Hz (high Q)= 0 ; 800Hz (high Q)= +1dB ; 1.4kHz (high Q)= +3dB ; 2.3 (low Q)= +3dB ; 5kHz HiShlv= -10dB]) ->> Zoom G1Xon (Used for an always on 2 band parametric equalizer [Freq=63Hz Q=4 Boost=+1dB ; [I]Freq=200 Q=2 Boost=+1dB], and additionally used for 3 patches (all including the EQ at the end of the chain), which respectively are as follows: Tremolo+VintageCE (Boss CE-1 emulation), chorus patch :-: Plate Reverb+HD Hall Reverb+Tape Delay, prominent reverb patch :-: Plate Reverb+HD Hall Reverb+Tape Delay, extremely thick lush reverb patch, used as a reverb pad effect with volume swells) [/I]->> NUX Tape Core Deluxe (Roland Space Echo tape delay emulation) ->> Zoom MS-70CDR (always on 2 band parametric EQ [Freq=400Hz Q=2 Boost=+1dB ; [I]Freq=1kHz Q=4 Boost=+1dB], subtle plate reverb, and faux, EQ based, cab sim, consisting of a 2 band parametric EQ set as follows: [Freq=12kHz Q=1 Cut=-18dB ; [I]Freq=20kHz Q=0.5 Cut=-20dB], plus a lush Church Reverb model that can be switched on/off)[/I][/I]

->> Band rehearsal/jamming/gigging // ->> Home practice / Home recordings :

->> EHX Black Finger (always on tube driven optical compressor, dialed in to a quite subtle compression, primarily functioning as a tube preamp stage) ->> Art Tube MP Project Series (tube preamp, with HPF at 40Hz) // ->> Band rehearsal/jamming/gigging ->> [Effects Return] (poweramp input) of Peavey Solo Special 112 (160W, solid state guitar combo, with the build in 4 Ohm 12" speaker unit disconnected and instead hooked up to a The Box PA 502 PA speaker) ->> The Box PA 502 (full range PA speaker with 1x 15" + 1.7" high frequency tweeter horn) // ->> Home practice / Home recordings ->> Behringer Eurorack UB1202 (mixer) ->> [ ->> Sennheiser HD 380 Pro (headphones) ]/[ ->> Behringer Tube Ultragain MIC100 (tube preamp) ->> M-Audio Fast Track (sound interface) ->> Reaper (DAW) ]


The EQ'ing done with the above setup approximately forming an EQ curve looking like this (some of it is qualified guesswork, since I don't have the exact Q and gain settings for some of the frequency bands used) :

View attachment 4248041
​

And here's the most recent picture of my setup, though as you can tell from the signal chain explanation above it is a bit outdated, and also I actually have a proper pedal board on the way with the mail service to fit all this stuff on (in fact I should receive sometime tomorrow) :
View attachment 4248042

That's intense I love it though. We are both doing a really similar approach tho just using different pedals to get there.

 

[NoiseNinja]

That's intense I love it though. We are both doing a really similar approach tho just using different pedals to get there.

Thanks.

I am glad you can appreciate it, a lot of work and trial and error went into it, but I think is finally close to perfection, tone wise at least, as said I'd like to simplify it a bit in the future, if it is possible for me to retain the same functionality and tonal end result.

I just realized I made a mistake when plotting in the EQ in that parametric equalizer VST, as I noticed the big bump in the bass.

Turned out I plotted in a +3dB for the 100Hz LoShlv where it really should have been +1dB, so the EQ curve formed by the EQ'ing done really looks more like this:

 

[teemuk]

Within reason the old saying that the magic in the tube output section actually holds up.
And a tube pre wont emulate the transformer, and neither will a transformer in the pre.

Yet a good modeling amp/unit might. Several have some kind of tube power amp emulation.