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ACME LOW B 210 views -worth this?

#21
greenboy said:
Ken, I just see so many blown and damaged drivers in all makes that I don't think Acme stands out particularly. Especially if you consider that its users are after LF performance among other things, which many bass players forgo, knowingly or not. So there are some differences.

The biggest mistake I see is that people have expectations without experience, and don't know when to add cabs/drivers. It's actually trickier with the Acmes perhaps, because a dedicated midrange keeps a lot of midrange distortion from appearing when the woofer is near its limits.

A lot of users have learned the hard way after upping the average wattage to ridiculous levels that it's smarter to add more cabs/drivers becasue there's no way around Hoffman's Iron Law, or thermal buildup or excursion limits either.

As far as users of more conventional bass cabs, not many of them are going to do nearly as well once they actually try to get the same amount of sub-100 Hz content. You choose your poison ; }
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+1... and your point about the dedicated midrange 'fooling' some into missing the signs of woofer problems is a good one.

Again, the positives to me about the Acme's is that, except for the discontinued EA VL line, there is nothing really like them on the market (i.e., deep, full, even, close to flat response) and a totally scalable voicing (i.e., the 210 sounds virtually identical to 2 x 110, etc.). I guess the Accugrooves have a three way design, but they don't achieve any sort of 'flat' response to me (e.g., the Tri112 sound VERY different from the Tri210, which sounds almost completely different from the Whappo, etc., etc.).

The trouble is, unique positives are also accompanied by some IMO unique negatives that I feel potential buyers should be aware of.

I do think some of the user error comes from trying to get these cabs to punch through a mix (a wide, even tone with deep bass extension can be hell in a mix with a bass drum pounding!). They sound great, and you just feel that if you can get them just a little louder by pumping more power into them, then everything will be OK, and then 'bam'!
 
#22
James Hart said:
no reason to erase the question... it was completely valid. I should have qualified my original response some.

As we've touched on before... I'm a tube guy with a taste for old school hifi tone (sure, that ain't confusing :p ). No tweeters, no horns... but bright, full and articulate :)
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I get that! It's funny, since I'm just the opposite. But every once in a while, I'll get to try an NV610, or sit in using an old SVT/Fridge or something like that, and it's like... OK, I get why guys like this stuff:)

PS I also erased my somewhat tongue in cheek comment about the TRI210.
 
#23
Acme makes a great cab.........but $500 AUD is a tad high. That comes out to be about $440 USD. In the US, you can get a used Acme B4 for about the same price he is asking for his B2. Although, I don't how much the cost of your gear is inflated to cover import costs, it has to cross several ponds to get to AUS. Maybe all of your imported gear is priced high, new or used. If you could get it for about $350 AUD - which is about $300 USD - I would say go for it. Just make sure that the speakers are genuine Acme speakers. I would get the serial # off the box and the guy's name and address then I would call Andy at Acme to see if he really sent the guy speakers. Having non-Acme speakers in this box really defeats the purpose of owning an Acme. Good luck!
 
#24
If you want to use an Acme well, get a nice head or power amp with 200-400W per woofer, set your EQ flat, turn up and get on with playing. If it isn't loud enough, get another or boost your midrange like a typical more coloured cab. If you want to eke the last fraction of a dB out, highpass filtering @ 30Hz will help the amp and cab, but it will not change the sound or 'tighten up the bottom' (which seems to actually mean reduce all sub 100Hz content).

As with all other bass cabs, the power handling rating of the Acmes is irrelevant because it is a thermal power rating, not an excursion limited rating. If you want to get deep bottom out of a cab the speakers have to move a long way. If your speakers are not moving a long way then you're not getting big deep bottom, whatever your ears are claiming.

There are no other bass cabs that sound like Acmes, or are designed like Acmes. I certainly wouldn't use another production cab. They aren't a panacea but they do what they do better than anything else and if you don't do stupid things with them you will not break the woofers, despite what hearsay might suggest.

Alex
 
#26
WOW!!!!!!! Thanx for all the replies guys! And the debates!! It's a mass debate ;-(
I'll look into the cab further meself. I don't need it...just ............
Re prices here........they ARE inflated. as I said in MY OP A SVT410HLF 2nd hand will sell(in A1 condition) for about $1400. Damn it!!!! But -in this country at least I s'pose it's all relative.

Thanx again. Will let U know what...
 
#27
rodl2005 said:
WOW!!!!!!! Thanx for all the replies guys! And the debates!! It's a mass debate ;-(
I'll look into the cab further meself. I don't need it...just ............
Re prices here........they ARE inflated. as I said in MY OP A SVT410HLF 2nd hand will sell(in A1 condition) for about $1400. Damn it!!!! But -in this country at least I s'pose it's all relative.

Thanx again. Will let U know what...
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Sorry for the thread derail! Goo luck in your search!
 
#29
rodl2005 said:
No PROBS. KJUNG it's good to see some debate & to hear all the views. I mean I'd rather hear all I can about it than just the positive things..... so thanx!
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And to restate once more... the Acme's are wonderful sounding and unique cabs... you just need to be a touch more careful with them IME than other's I've had experience with. If you want deep lows from a small box, only the EA VL line (discontinued) will give them a run for their money IMO and IME.
 
#31
BassmanPaul said:
I find the hype that some how go along with Acme speakers fascinating! Bass Clef do you actually own a B2?? I have four and let me tell you they are worth every penny I paid for them. They are rated, incidentally at 350W not 250W. I have read of players who consider that an Acme cabinet requires 500W per cone or 1KW per B2 in order for them to sound good. IMHO that is nuts and does indeed lead to damaged cones just like any other abuse would damage a cone. Acmes tend to take abuse and keep on giving great sound even when they are being destroyed.

My experience is this: yes the Acme likes power and is inefficient. This is one of the consequences of getting low frequency response from a small cabinet. I bought my first about ten years ago and I was blown away by the sound I got from a 100W amp. I immediately bought another. A second pair followed as soon as I could afford them. Thus I have a pair of Series Is and a pair of series IIs.

In use I have gigged with one in a small eatery but usually use two. I drive them one per channel from mostly a Carvin DCM1000 power amp. This gives me 350W per cabinet for the maximum the box is rated for. They sound wonderful!!

To cover the topic of replacing speakers. I have had to replace three speakers. One I punched a hole in the surround when my screwdriver slipped. (I had to pull the speaker to replace a blown crossover bulb) The other two: I had left the cabinets in my van overnight. The temperature sank to -40C that night. I loaded in to the gig and without thinking dropped a low B at a good level into the cabs. Shattered the surround of one speaker in each cabinet. It was a long night after that I can tell you!!! All three speakers were replaced when Andy Lewis replaced them at his cost price plus shipping.

In my opinion Acme makes the best speakers available and I will use no other.

Paul
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Hey BP,

To answer your question - No, I don't own them because I decided not to buy them when I was looking for a 2x10 stack over 18months ago. But, yes I did get to test a stack of them against a stack of EA NL210s on a gig using an Eden WT550 to drive each stack. The difference to me in performance was almost night and day. Though the tone I was getting from the acme was great, the WT550 was clipping the whole way through the set and this made me very nervous and affected my playing. I really struggled to get enough decent volume. However, with the NL210 stack I had more volume and needed less tweaking on the amp to get the tone I wanted and really felt good playing with this stack. So obvoiusly that's all I needed to feel to make my decision. In the end buying gear should based on what you think feels and sounds right for you and not what's written on paper. On top of all that I did all the research possible before I decided what to buy and spoke to and emailed some users of the acme 210s and everyone told me exactly what I said in my statement - you need to drive them with the right amount of power being at least 600-700watts to get them to work properly. Everyone I spoke to regarding acme's have had similar experiences with woofers being underdriven. But I can see where people can go wrong with overdriving them as well, because this will happen if people need to get a reasonable amount of volume out of them and they aren't delivering. They'll just keep pumping the watts into them until they get the useable volume they require.
I know the EA NL210s have had their critisms as well and I accept that too. However, I can only go on personal experience and this goes for the Acmes, and what I know to date is that the EA's have performed without a hitch every time and I love them. I have also given the the new Berg 210s a good listen too as well and have to say if I had the money I'd jump on a stack of them as well. They seemed to handle a whole lot more than the EA's and Acmes put together. This is why I gave my opinion to my aussie brother Rod- (and I'm entitled to - I think:rolleyes:) save your pennies and go for a Berg. I know I am but I'm going staight to the top - IP310 :smug:
Keep on rocking boys - :bassist:
 
#32
And right there is the cause of your dissatisfaction: The amp was clipping and it put you off your playing. Rightly so, it would have put me off too, there's nothing worse than trying to perform with one eye (or both) glued to your equipment. I've not tried the EA stuff or the Bergs though I've heard good things about them both. Currently I am more than happy with my B2s and I hope you fall in love with your new Berg when it arrives.

Paul
 

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