Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Acme Low B2 v. Eden D210 XST
- Thread starter lawjazz1
- Start date
I played a rehearsal through a buddy's Acme Low B2 last night and it is an *excellent* bass cabinet. I used Eden for years, although it was the D210XLT, not XST. I think the Eden will be more efficient- louder for the same amp settings- but the Acme will go lower and pump out more real bass. Not that the Eden is bass shy!
Both are very good, and the differences really will be those of particular taste more than some objective "quality" measure. Your bass, amp, style of music, and style of play will have a big impact on which one will work for you, but in another sense it will be hard to go (horribly) wrong with either choice.
Both are very good, and the differences really will be those of particular taste more than some objective "quality" measure. Your bass, amp, style of music, and style of play will have a big impact on which one will work for you, but in another sense it will be hard to go (horribly) wrong with either choice.
I use the B2 as my standard cabinet - I own four. Two, in a vertical stack, does everything I need. The BX1500 is my #2 amplifier.
I had both at the same time to compare.
The Eden 210XST was nice. It had a bit more of a slight raspy/growly quality to it, wasn't quite as clear and clean as the Acme. Seemed a bit louder, but only a bit, and that may have been due to the rasp/growl making it seem louder. The Eden sounded deeper than a lot of bass cabs, but it did not have the low end of the Acme. The Acme goes quite a bit deeper.
The specs that Eden used to publish for the 210XST were technically impossible - they claimed it basically had a flat response down to about 30Hz and had a sensitivity of like 102db - in a box that small, sorry, not possible.
The Acmes are like medium sized studio monitors - very clear, very deep, very even. Their published specs are accurate, including sensitivity, which is definitely lower than most typical bass guitar cabs. These are not built for ear-bleeding volume levels; they're built for sound quality, not quantity.
I sold the Eden, still have a pair of Acmes. I also play keys and use synths and samplers, so they're basically my own small studio quality PA. As long as you're not having volume wars with a hard hitting drummer and/or loud guitarists, they're great.
The Eden 210XST was nice. It had a bit more of a slight raspy/growly quality to it, wasn't quite as clear and clean as the Acme. Seemed a bit louder, but only a bit, and that may have been due to the rasp/growl making it seem louder. The Eden sounded deeper than a lot of bass cabs, but it did not have the low end of the Acme. The Acme goes quite a bit deeper.
The specs that Eden used to publish for the 210XST were technically impossible - they claimed it basically had a flat response down to about 30Hz and had a sensitivity of like 102db - in a box that small, sorry, not possible.
The Acmes are like medium sized studio monitors - very clear, very deep, very even. Their published specs are accurate, including sensitivity, which is definitely lower than most typical bass guitar cabs. These are not built for ear-bleeding volume levels; they're built for sound quality, not quantity.
I sold the Eden, still have a pair of Acmes. I also play keys and use synths and samplers, so they're basically my own small studio quality PA. As long as you're not having volume wars with a hard hitting drummer and/or loud guitarists, they're great.
With modern speakers and design, yup it's possible. I've never heard any one, including other manufacturers, dispute those specs and to be honest they're not out of line when you compare it to other, similarly designed, modern 210s.
I can shake my house with mine, so I'd say it gets pretty low.
I had an Acme 2x10 for 6 years, very clean & went very low.
Very inefficient.
I now have an XST 2x10 which is very efficient.
Need less power and works better tonally for what I do which is a lot of rock, pop & Blues.
Very inefficient.
I now have an XST 2x10 which is very efficient.
Need less power and works better tonally for what I do which is a lot of rock, pop & Blues.
Nope, not possible.
Claimed low frequency response of -2db@36Hz AND 102db/1w@1m is not possible in a 3.5 cubic foot cabinet.
You can get that kind of frequency response in that size cabinet, but you won't get anywhere near that efficiency.
You can get that kind of efficiency in that size cabinet, but in won't go nearly that low.
Or you can make a much bigger cabinet.
For reference check the specs on [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] JBL subwoofer which has nearly twice the cabinet volume.
Going purely by published specs, the Eden 210XST is 7db more efficient than a JBL pro touring class subwoofer, and nearly half the size.
I guarantee you that any pro sound company would jump at the chance to increase the efficiency of their low frequency systems by 7db while reducing their physical load by nearly half - which affects your trucking and fuel costs by a huge margin, not to mention load-in/out.
Pro sound is an extremely competitive business, and the companies that build that stuff know that they cannot get away with fudging their specs because they sell to professional sound engineers who will quickly call their bluff, out in the real world with real measuring instruments.
Bass guitar equipment companies know that they can fudge their numbers if they want to because it's highly unlikely that any of their numbers will ever be checked.
The 210XST is not a bad cabinet by any means. I like it a lot more than most bass cabs out there. It is a deeper sounding cabinet than many bass cabs out there. But I've had one side-by-side with an Acme B2, and it does not have the low end extension of the Acme.
alexclaber
Commercial User
And BTW - you mostly won't hear other bass cab manufacturers disputing each others published specs 'cause most of them do not publish accurate specs. Kind of a "pot calling the kettle black" thing.
I own both. I use an Eden WT-800 with a pair of Acmes (and another pair in reserve). I've sold one of the XSTs and haven't used the other in over a year. A previous poster used the words "raspy/growly" regarding the XST. I kinda hear that and might add the word "hollow" in comparison. The XST is not a bad sounding cabinet, but I much prefer the Acmes.
Two reasons for still having the second XST.
1. I want too much money for it. Had them on CL for about three months at $500. Only one sold. Haven't bothered relisting for the last half year.
2. In the practice space I vertically stack two Acmes on it so I don't have to lift the lower one up as far when taking the Acmes to a gig.
1. I want too much money for it. Had them on CL for about three months at $500. Only one sold. Haven't bothered relisting for the last half year.
2. In the practice space I vertically stack two Acmes on it so I don't have to lift the lower one up as far when taking the Acmes to a gig.
I think for a lot of applications the Eden will sound great, and if you're not bringing much amp to the gig, will suit you better.
But the while the Acme's may be quieter, they will take a bunch of power and get plenty loud if you feed them power and good clean playing.
You can see both have fans, and rightly so.
But the while the Acme's may be quieter, they will take a bunch of power and get plenty loud if you feed them power and good clean playing.
You can see both have fans, and rightly so.
Thanks everyone for the information. I play in a rock cover band on electric bass (both active and passive), and I also play upright double bass in jazz and other acoustic groups. I am fairly sure that Acme low b2s will sound great on the acoustic gigs but I'm somewhat concerned that the low b2s might not be loud enough for the rock gigs given their inefficiency. I am not sure how the Edens will sound in acoustic settings. I play in small to medium rock bars and the occasional outdoor summerfest (nothing big - we're not headliners). I am trying to decide on the most versatile rig, and use them with a Carvin BX1500. So, 4 ohms cabs can get 450w from each amp, or 750w at 2 ohms from one amp.
ACME's are world class. There's a handful of the BEST and they're one of them. Get the 4 ohm versions so you're pumping 450w into each of them with that head. KILLER stack.
Some of the "inefficiency" arguments about ACME's I feel are overstated a bit. Yeah you might turn the volume up to 5 instead of 3 or 4, but that's why you have a volume knob. With two you'll be CRUSHING since you truly double the output of a single 450w, one cab setup.
The only setup I might like more with that head is the 12" Flat with the 12" Full Range cabs, and that's because the Carvin has a built-in active crossover when running TRUE bi-amp mode. No other head on the market has this feature, I believe. TECAMP, maybe.
Some of the "inefficiency" arguments about ACME's I feel are overstated a bit. Yeah you might turn the volume up to 5 instead of 3 or 4, but that's why you have a volume knob. With two you'll be CRUSHING since you truly double the output of a single 450w, one cab setup.
The only setup I might like more with that head is the 12" Flat with the 12" Full Range cabs, and that's because the Carvin has a built-in active crossover when running TRUE bi-amp mode. No other head on the market has this feature, I believe. TECAMP, maybe.
I've used a 2 x acme low b stack for around 10 years. Great sounding speakers especially when you give them enough clean power.
For what it's worth I've recently changed to 2 115 fearless cabinets which sound great it was mainly the sound of the mids and the handling of effects that led me away from the Acmes.
Sorry but I have
no experience with the Edens but I have liked those cabs I've heard.
Cheers
Ben
For what it's worth I've recently changed to 2 115 fearless cabinets which sound great it was mainly the sound of the mids and the handling of effects that led me away from the Acmes.
Sorry but I have
no experience with the Edens but I have liked those cabs I've heard.
Cheers
Ben
ACME's are also multiple use speakers. I'm running two 4-ohm B-2's now, each a couple of feet from me, pushed by a QSC 2402 with my computer media player feeding tunes in. Two in a vertical stack with power and control(i.e. comp/limit to protect the speakers) is amazing.
Four(2 vertical stacks side-by-side) pushes a ton of sound.
Four(2 vertical stacks side-by-side) pushes a ton of sound.
This is one post I fully agree with. There again I've never tried to use mine with a standard mono bass amp. When I bought my first I invested in a power amp that could supply the rated power that they needed. I've yet to feel that I/m lacking for volume.
