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Acoustic Bass Guitar -- too genre-oriented?

#81
Don't flame me, but I think ABG's are really impractical.

I own a nice Morgan Monroe ABG currently and have briefly owned a Martin ABG.

Why do I think ABGs are a waste of time? First off, I have yet to hear an ABC that can keep up two acoustic guitars unplugged. Therefore amplification is realistically required. If an amp is required, I prefer an electric bass over a ABG 100% of the time. Also, very few ABGs have playability similar to an electric.

Having said that, I play my ABG all summer on small patio gigs and around campfires. Beyond that, I almost always prefer an electric for tone and playability.

YMMV, but I expect very few bassist that own ABGs and electric basses actually play their ABGs very often.
 
#82
i just traded my michael kelly for an ibanez btb. it was an awesome bass. i loved the sound and like that i could bring it hiking in the mountains without an amp (or with a smoky amp) it sounded great and felt great but i needed gear and the btb was worth twice the michael kelly in a trade in so she had to go. but i might get another or an ibanez again soon as the bills are caught up on again. i really want a martin acoustic some day but at the price ive gotta wait for a while. they have thier good points but they arnt practical just alot of fun imo.
 
#84
I just got the Martin BC16-GTE

Initial impression, very well made, sounds cool, loud, but probably not loud enough to play with more than one acoustic guitar, mandolin, ukulele or other such instruments. However I think that is not the point. I mean this is a big bass with a great feeling neck and a big acoustic chamber, all solid woods, when plugged in the tone is fed into a top notch Fishman eq/system. I slapped on some tape wounds and got a nice thuddy, quick decay tone that is very....well.........acoustic. This is a sound that cannot be duplicated by a solid body bass, semi-hollow maybe, but can an unplugged semi-hollow keep up with even one acoustic guitar? not a chance, does a semi hollow capture this acoustic vibe and look? Nope. The bass resonates so fully I find myself feeling the notes in my chest as I play, quite a sensation and it helps with playing by "feel" rather than just ear if that makes any sense. I like it, if you can afford it I would recommend the Martin. I know it will find a place in my small stable as the go to bass for any and all acoustic music projects that I will be part of in the future, and why not? It looks the part, it sounds the part, and it plays fantastic.
 
#87
Thanks a lot everyone for the input.
PaulMacCnj and prd004, thank you so much for your videos. Both basses sound great to me.
The Carvin does sound versatile (more than most AEBs I've seen around).

The Loef really blew me away. Never heard of that brand before (it's from Finland, right?). I've checked it out: its a 29" !! Sounds too good to be true.

They probably cost a lot, I guess (couldn't find anyone for sale)
 
#88
Baird6869 said:
Don't flame me, but I think ABG's are really impractical.

I own a nice Morgan Monroe ABG currently and have briefly owned a Martin ABG.

Why do I think ABGs are a waste of time? First off, I have yet to hear an ABC that can keep up two acoustic guitars unplugged. Therefore amplification is realistically required. If an amp is required, I prefer an electric bass over a ABG 100% of the time. Also, very few ABGs have playability similar to an electric.

Having said that, I play my ABG all summer on small patio gigs and around campfires. Beyond that, I almost always prefer an electric for tone and playability.

YMMV, but I expect very few bassist that own ABGs and electric basses actually play their ABGs very often.
Click to expand...

Right on the mark!!:bassist:

(only smilies play acoustics!)
 
#89
I played about 30 of my 200+ gigs last year on my ABG. I have now added a Breedlove fretless ABG to the stable and look forward to doing more this year. I also play mine daily at home. I seldom practice with a plugged in electric and the ABG is perfect for woodshedding.
 
#92
ABGs are generally not built with big bodies needed to project the volume (and bass frequencies) needed to play it acoustically. Back in the 80's when these things started becoming popular, they wanted to make an acoustic that would really appeal to hard rock players. Thus we have basses like the Kramer Ferrington, and many other thin-bodied acoustic basses started to become popular. Performers didn't really care about the acoustic volume, they just wanted them to sound acoustic plugged in, and they got popular with MTV Unplugged. They were always plugged in, they just had an acoustic character.

Ernie Ball originally made an acoustic bass guitar in the 70's that had a very big body called the Earthwood, and Ernie based it off the Mexican guitarron. It never really caught on though - too unmanageable for most bass players, but it sounded more like an unplugged acoustic bass guitar should have.

History lesson over, I owned a Dean EABC5. Fun, but not really all that usable except for practice. I'd rather just get a small but fairly loud battery powered bass amp. If you're really persistent about getting a true ABG with good unplugged volume, maybe check out a luthier called Moonstone Guitars:

[This invalid link has been removed]

I'm sure it's expensive, but their basses are supposed to be BIG, and I assume loud and bassy.
 
#93
One group I work with plays wineries, restaurants and a few clubs in what you might call the "unplugged" format. Acoustic electric guitar, acoustic electric bass, and drums. Our material ranges from acoustic blues to classic/southern rock. The previous bassist used a slab bass on the acoustic gigs.The ABG does make a difference in both the sound of the group and visual effect. Adding the fretless has broadened our horizons even more in that it gets me very close to an upright sound.
ABG's will never be a Swiss army knife or a standalone acoustic instrument, but they do have their place in my arsenal.
 
#94
It seems very apparent to me hear that people don't know the difference between loudness, and depth...

I've just done a hasty test as my band mates are not around with cubase a Classical Guitar an Ortega 5 String ABG strung with Bronze strings, and a 5 String DB.

I recorded 1 Verse Chorus of Message in a Bottle, with the condenser mike at the other end of the room.

I recorded all the parts at the same volume..

I did the Guitar first then the ABG, and then the DB. I played back the track with each of the basses individually.....

Each instrument can be heard at the exact same volume! BUT......... The problem is not there....

Points to consider!

1 A DB is NOT louder than a Violin, but much bigger! So size does NOT mean volume!

2 If you have 3 acoustic steel string guitars playing, you can hear all three but not necessarily pick out which guitar sound is whose. Much less hear one of them soloing if the the other two are strumming hard.

3 Bass is not measured in range, but tube depth, more importantly Organ tube depth...The deeper the tube the more wind is moved, the deeper the the tube the more of the harmonics closer the the Fundamental you produce. (When you are talking about b the bass of course). Therefore DBs are big enough to be used as salvage boats....

So the going back to the recording... The ABG was not a distinctive as the the DB, even though I could even hear the low D on the B string.

One needs to make each instrument as distinctive as possible.

So for an ABG the minimum you require, not just to be heard, but to be distinguished from the other Acoustic Guitars is this:

Don't forget that you have nearly the same body as the the other acoustic guitars, so why wouldn't the brain of the listener just assume that not that you are playing isn't just the part of the cacophony produced by the strumming of the guitar. Of course if they are finger picking its easier for the brain to filter.

If the Guitars are using zingy strings,(Ie Bronze) for Gods sake stay away, use Flats to avoid too many high harmonics! Look a Grand piano has more body, and range than a DB right? and yet the DB sounds deeper why? Well the DB is plucked and has Flats, and the Piano has Bronze strings and if Hammered, no brainer more high harmonics!

Ultimately the ABG will never be the DB in terms of bass depth, because it hasn't got the body to shift enough wind! But sometimes you don't want all that wind as you might be just jamming in a small room and the guitars are playing softly, and the DB is too powerful, so an ABG fits very well. for example in Guitar quartet the use a Contrabass Guitar not a DB, because the all the guitar part fit mathematically together and the DB would deficiently be too much!

CLEAR AS MUD?
 
#95
I've found them slightly impractical. The thinner bodied ones have decent(not great) acoustic tone when plugged in, but not enough volume unplugged to compete with one acoustical guitar, imo. The big bodied ones are often much better unplugged, with more of the tubby, double-bass sound, but they are unwieldy, since the body is generally longer and thicker than any acoustic guitar. That thick body can make it a little hard to get comfortable hand position for your picking/plucking hand. Don't do it unless you have a real need, and try one for at least 20 minutes at a store. Try it both plugged and unplugged - some are noisy as heck in regards to finger noise no matter what strings you put on. About every 2-3 years I get one and get rid of it within 4-6 months. I currently have this Carvin 5 string(thin body) and I think about making it fretless. Probably an exercise in futility. I'll just buy me a double bass if I'm doing music that requires it - it's where I started. And be careful lifting one of those fat suckers off your body - you forget how fat it is compared to your electric slab, and bamm, right in the kisser!
 
#96
If you use nylon tapewound strings, it's good for acoustic, country, bluegrass and jazz, especially if you play fretless (which I don't nor do I plan on it in the near future).
Plus, if you use a pick and EQ it on an amp correctly, you can channel the Hofner violin bass and use it for Beatles songs.
In all of those cases, you're gonna want to use a soundhole cover, because you're gonna be prone to feedback if you want to turn it up to a reasonable volume.
 
#97
I love my ABG, and I think people buy them and expect them to either be an electric bass you don't need an amp for or some kind of small double bass. They are their own instrument, have their own sound, and (in terms of technique) need to be approached differently. I've seen a video review of an Ibanez AEB8E where the guy plays finger-funk up near the bridge, like its a Jazz Bass or something, and complains that the tone sucks... Hmmm.

Here is an example of someone who 'gets' what an ABG is capable of. I bought this album off iTunes; it's really nice.



Personally, I like the crispy sound of bronze strings. Right now I have stainless steel rounds on (tuned ADGC) and they are fairly bright, too. I'm not into putting flatwounds on an ABG so it sounds like an electric or double bass; I have an actual electric and a double bass for that.

EDIT: To respond to the OP properly, I don't think there are any real genre limitations (it's all about discretion, of course - would you take a B.C. Rich to a jazz combo gig?). There might be technical limitations for some people struggling with feedback in a loud setting, though.
 
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#98
SurferJoe46 said:
I can get my Ibby AEB10 into pretty much any musical style, but I use a hole plug and always amplify it.

There's no trying to fool myself (and you shouldn't either) that an acoustic is good for playing in an acoustic set without an amplifier - that's just tokin'.

But - AMPd, it's great. Fully round, fundamentally sonic and very deep in voice, it is extremely useable.

Nathan East used on for quite a few numbers with Clapton/Billy Preston in concert for both acoustic and electric cuts, so there's that documentation that it very adaptable for many settings. Of course, East is a very special bassist too, so there's always that to consider.
Click to expand...

I've played an Ibanez AEB10 (Dark Violin Sunburst) for the past few years in a Beatles acoustic band in the Chicagoland area. It's a good bass and is very playable! I especially love that practicing w/out an amp is easy.

No acoustic-electric bass can go toe-to-toe w/ an acoustic guitar w/ out amplification, however.

Recently, I've fallen in love with a Höfner CT 500/7 Verythin bass and now that's my primary in the Beatles group (if you need to be amplified playing an acoustic bass, then it's ok to play a hollowbody electric in my mind) and most of the time when I play rock / pop music w/ other groups...
 
#100
The better the workmanship and the presence of solid woods rather than laminates brings such tone that you will own one just to play it.

Our fellow who bought the Martin is enjoying good workmanship and tone.

The good ABGs play as well as the finest electric basses. While not the most resonant ABG out there the Taylor now discontinued has a neck any rock to fusion player would love!

If you play with thrashers on Dreadnaughts then you might be drowned out. Isn't this just like our electric world? Some folks would rather play loud than play music? :)
Conversely I carry a small amp and a slab where the delicate timbres wouldn't be appreciated.

We can't expect the body to be small and complain about volume and projection. I understand that some folks just can't reach around the bigger ones or aren't used to it.

There has been a small bodied Martin that was around $1k that had huge tone and volume for its size. Interesting that Martin has much larger bodies available though maybe not with appropriate bracing/voicing.

Plugged in: If you don't have proper buffering in the input of your amp even a nice Fishman can sound crunchy and harsh or too bright. All built in pres aren't of good quality. If the piezo isn't installed in a skilled manner even a good one can sound poor. Gain staging between your onboard electronics, if you have, your outboard pre, your integrated amp's pre or mixing board input out to the Master can give anywhere from horrible to pristine representation.

Jonas Hellborg has an extensive discography exploiting all manner of tones from a Schechter. He's used Ovation and now the Warwick. "Silent Life" is amazing!
 

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