Adapting to fretless- WITH NO LOOKING! Tips and tricks?

[SteveCS]

Have you ever tried Simandl fingering? It may be a dead end for you but for me it's a huge help when reading.

A fundamental objective of all of those classical double-bass methods is secure intonation and good tone through systematic fingering and development of good consistent hand-shape. It is a time-proven concept that works, so I will whole-heartedly second this recommendation. If anyone is in any doubt, this is my daughter - she started on 'cello at age 7 then switched to double-bass at 16, just 7 years ago:

 

[vindibona1]

Have you ever tried Simandl fingering? It may be a dead end for you but for me it's a huge help when reading.

I hadn't heard the term "Simandl" before, so I looked it up and watched a couple vids on YouTube. I think I do it naturally. Up near the nut I often finger 1-2-4 rather than 1-2-3. Is that it?

Fretless excluded, I think I need more work on my right hand than my left. Speed is not my friend and I struggle to play tunes with fast ostinato such as DeanTown (Joe Dart) and anything by Vincen Garcia. What is Hip? Same deal. Even stuff by Kinga Glyk I stand a fighting chance with my left, but far too sluggish with my right. I don't even know how these players can play 16th notes at speed continuously for minutes at a time without getting hand cramps!

 

[KenSmithFan]

there are no tricks --- the more you do it (play your fretless while reading) = the better you get!

newbies think that pro players don't look at the fingerboard, but if your eyes work = use them when you can. good luck with your fretless playing!

+1

Reminds me of the old joke - a man went to his doctor and told him he wants to quit smoking so the doctor said, “Then take the cigarette out of your mouth.”

 

[JohnBrown13]

I've had my fretless for a few months now and love it (Ibanez SR375F). I was never afraid of fretless as I played cello in college strings class for 1 or 2 semesters. And I do pretty well with it WHEN I CAN LOOK AT MY LEFT HAND.

The problem is that I am regularly in front of printed music which may or may not have my left hand moving like we do on bass. I have a visual coordination condition, so often when I look away from the music, and turn my attention back to it, I'm lost. I try to color code critical points in the music as "mile posts" so when I get lost I can find my place. But I hate getting lost and want to do much better in performance with fretless.
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What is the next step in my progression with fretless so I can play like a double-bass player, looking at music, not having to look at the left hand?

Since you already have cello experience, you’re not starting from zero — it’s really about rebuilding position confidence on a different scale length. I’d suggest slow practice with a drone (or sustained root) and really locking in pitch by ear. That trains your hand to associate distance with sound, not sight.
Also, practice short passages intentionally without looking — even with eyes closed. It feels uncomfortable at first, but it forces you to rely on tactile landmarks and consistent shifting distance.
Over time, your hand just “knows” where it is. That’s what upright players develop — strong positional memory and trusted ears.

 

[BassicJazzy]

Since you already have cello experience, you’re not starting from zero — it’s really about rebuilding position confidence on a different scale length. I’d suggest slow practice with a drone (or sustained root) and really locking in pitch by ear. That trains your hand to associate distance with sound, not sight.
Also, practice short passages intentionally without looking — even with eyes closed. It feels uncomfortable at first, but it forces you to rely on tactile landmarks and consistent shifting distance.
Over time, your hand just “knows” where it is. That’s what upright players develop — strong positional memory and trusted ears.

Not to be argumentative, because most of what you are saying above I agree with, but what are the "tactics landmarks" you refer to on the neck of my fretless SR370EF? Here are a few pics, so feel free to point them out to me.

 

[vindibona1]

Since you already have cello experience, you’re not starting from zero — it’s really about rebuilding position confidence on a different scale length. I’d suggest slow practice with a drone (or sustained root) and really locking in pitch by ear. That trains your hand to associate distance with sound, not sight.
Also, practice short passages intentionally without looking — even with eyes closed. It feels uncomfortable at first, but it forces you to rely on tactile landmarks and consistent shifting distance.
Over time, your hand just “knows” where it is. That’s what upright players develop — strong positional memory and trusted ears.

I guess I started this thread last September. Since then I've become more comfortable with it, especially psychologically. I don't know if I can attribute the relative transition to my previous cello experience, which was over 50 years ago, but I always felt that my left hand position has been pretty good, fingering just behind the frets, using my pinky where appropriate and keeping shifting to only what is needed. The neck on my SR375F is super comfortable and easy to get around. I don't know if it would be as easy if I were on a BTB fretless. Not a lot of fretless basses to try in person anywhere, in spite of guitar shops here everywhere.

 

[Jazzdogg]

spend literally hours every single day in the woodshed. How do people that play upright do it? again, literally hours and hours and hours of practice

When I started, Back in the stone age, I practiced daily using the Simandl method book, which provides cumulative skills and muscle memory.

 

[vindibona1]

Have you ever tried Simandl fingering? It may be a dead end for you but for me it's a huge help when reading.

Interesting. I had never heard the name before, but I typically use a 1-2-4 up toward the nut end of the neck until it becomes more comfortable. If I have to use 1-2-3-4 I'll shift a bit.

@Geogio Other than college string class I never played a string instrument in orchestra, but I have played trumpet in symphony orchestras, pit orchestras, professional level concert bands and an pretty sensitive to intonation when I can hear what the heck I'm doing. This is one reason why, even when my sound goes out to FOH most of the time, I use my amp as a monitor which *I* can control, (XLR to house/Amp out to amp on EQ/DI box).

So far nobody has complained or even, for the most part noticed that I'm playing fretless, so I suppose that's good thing. Initially the former MD would tell me that there were a few "moments", but I haven't even gotten comments in the past months. It's coming along. If I didn't have so many really nice basses I'd be playing my fretless more often.

 

[BassicJazzy]

All kinds of good ideas up above. I'm eight months into fretless now, pretty much only play the SR370EF, though I take out one of my fretted basses occasionally, just to test myself on them, plus to hear the sounds (love that P bass). I don't read so all I can say about that is without that guidance, you are free to chose your octaves as you play through whatever form or progression you might be working on, i.e., do I want to play E1, 2, 3, on this passage. Personally, I like that freedom, but I learned by ear years ago. I've always like to improv. I stopped using drones about 3 or 4 months ago, they got annoying. I just stare straight ahead and run the board in various keys, or work through the cycles with various exercises. This develops solid shifts, no gaps or stutters, at least for me.

Everyone is different. What works for me might not work for you, and vice versa.

 

[Passinwind]

Interesting. I had never heard the name before, but I typically use a 1-2-4 up toward the nut end of the neck until it becomes more comfortable. If I have to use 1-2-3-4 I'll shift a bit.

On fretless BG in at least the first couple of positions I actually often use 1-23-4 rather than 1-2-4, the famous upright bass "claw." As seen here: Double Bass - Question about left hand shape; The Claw.

That's mostly a leftover habit from my twenty years gigging on EUB, and having pretty small hands. Easier to do wide stretches, including way up in thumb position, which I tended to use a lot because I soloed on at least 80% of the tunes. For me it a very relaxed hand posture anywhere on the neck, but I let my third finger float quite a bit when that's more comfortable as well.

 

[BassicJazzy]

On fretless BG in at least the first couple of positions I actually often use 1-23-4 rather than 1-2-4, the famous upright bass "claw." As seen here: Double Bass - Question about left hand shape; The Claw.

That's mostly a leftover habit from my twenty years gigging on EUB, and having pretty small hands. Easier to do wide stretches, including way up in thumb position, which I tended to use a lot because I soloed on at least 80% of the tunes. For me it a very relaxed hand posture anywhere on the neck, but I let my third finger float quite a bit when that's more comfortable as well.

I'm mostly 123 down by the neck, if I'm in 1/2 position. I too have small hands. My fingering down there looks a bit like what Chris Squire used all over the board. It's not pretty, but it works. Once I get past 1/2 position I go to 1234. Above the 12 fret line I slip back to 123. Pinky doesn't work well for me up there, due to wrist angle and the small neck on the SR.

 

[vindibona1]

A fundamental objective of all of those classical double-bass methods is secure intonation and good tone through systematic fingering and development of good consistent hand-shape. It is a time-proven concept that works, so I will whole-heartedly second this recommendation. If anyone is in any doubt, this is my daughter - she started on 'cello at age 7 then switched to double-bass at 16, just 7 years ago:

Vibrato comes in handy .

 

[Les Fret]

but what are the "tactics landmarks" you refer to on the neck of my fretless SR370EF?

There are no tactics/tactile landmarks on a fretless bass neck. As opposed to cello or upright bass. That’s why you need either side dots or lines. A fretless bass neck without any markers at all would be unplayable as far as intonation is concerned.

 

[BassicJazzy]

There are no tactics/tactile landmarks on a fretless bass neck. As opposed to cello or upright bass. That’s why you need either side dots or lines. A fretless bass neck without any markers at all would be unplayable as far as intonation is concerned.

Yep, my point exactly. There are some highly experienced fretless players here on TB who kinda miss that point, and compare to violin-family acoustic instruments. It is possible that there are some fretless EB necks that have varying taper to their neck, so you might have a physical clue of what position you were approaching, but I haven't seen one yet. Ears work for fine tuning, or in the upper register, but not for major shifts.