Adding a 210 with a 410

[videomagician]

I am about to add a Carvin BRX10.2 on top of my BRX10.4 using my BX500. My reason is because I am trying to get some sound closer to ear level. Some of the stages we play are so small I find myself standing right against the BRX10.4 and have trouble hearing what I am playing.

 

[SmithLee]

is the 4x10 ported? because the 2x10 probably is not. Which means more punch same low end. And I have not heard of anyone using mixed ohm cabs. Sounds dangerous ....especially when most applications are matched 4x16ohm 2x8ohm ect....I'd get some tech info from the head manufacturer.

 

[jumbodbassman]

eh


Better make sure your amp can handle less than 4 ohms before you try it!

+1000

 

[SmithLee]

I didn't think about it but.....even cheaper elevate your 4x10 and it might make all the difference in the world

 

[billfitzmaurice]

if I add this second cabinet, but play at the same volume, will I get added punch and presence, and low end?

No. That's what those knobs on your amp are for.

 

[SanDiegoHarry]

No. That's what those knobs on your amp are for.

Bill - give me a no BS answer here. You, being a guy who clearly *knows* this stuff: This guy wants to put his 8 ohm 2x10 with his 4 ohm 4x10 - - will the 4 ohm cab be "louder" than the 8 ohm?

I had long heard that matching my 8ohm 4x10 with my 8ohm 2x10 (same brand/drivers) would result in the 2x10 "overwhelming" my 4x10, but I have not found that to be the case...

but I want to hear the sound engineer's take on this

thx!

 

[billfitzmaurice]

Bill - give me a no BS answer here. You, being a guy who clearly *knows* this stuff: This guy wants to put his 8 ohm 2x10 with his 4 ohm 4x10 - - will the 4 ohm cab be "louder" than the 8 ohm?

The 4x10 will be louder because it has four drivers. But all six drivers will see the same power, so that's the correct arrangement.

I had long heard that matching my 8ohm 4x10 with my 8ohm 2x10 (same brand/drivers) would result in the 2x10 "overwhelming" my 4x10, but I have not found that to be the case...

Only because you're not driving the system to the point of the 2x10 drivers clipping, which they will do at half the power that the 4x10 will.

 

[KJung]

Bill - give me a no BS answer here. You, being a guy who clearly *knows* this stuff: This guy wants to put his 8 ohm 2x10 with his 4 ohm 4x10 - - will the 4 ohm cab be "louder" than the 8 ohm?

I had long heard that matching my 8ohm 4x10 with my 8ohm 2x10 (same brand/drivers) would result in the 2x10 "overwhelming" my 4x10, but I have not found that to be the case...

but I want to hear the sound engineer's take on this

thx!

This is one of the misunderstandings that many have. Do not think about cabs... think about drivers. A 410 will always be 'louder' than a 210 of the same basic design and manufacturer. However, if you are really pumping some wattage into the cabs, why would you ever want a cab with half the drivers to get the same amount of power as a cab with double the drivers?!?! That's just a poorly designed system IMO and IME.

You actually DO want the 410 to be MUCH louder than the 210 in order to get a balanced system. Think about it this way... why would you want two of the 10" drivers in a 610 to in some way try to match the output watt per watt of FOUR 10" drivers.

If you aren't pushing the 210 to its limits, then it really doesn't matter. However, if you have a monoblock amp that is pushing the four drivers of the 8ohm 410 to their limits, the 210 will melt

 

[Burlington]

If you're gonna get another cab, you might as well get another 4ohm 4x10 IMHO.

 

[greenboy]

It'd be jolly swell if someone actually said what they meant when they said vague terms like PUNCH and whatnot. Ferinstance, a lot of amps in the past have had a PUSH PUNCH button, and when you looked in the manual it was often a mid-bass/upper-bass boost. And putting two cabs together adds more in that area than it does above it - there is more coupling there than up higher...

So now it's midrange? What midrange? Mid-midrange is the nasal honky area between 500- and 1000, lower mid-range is where you can get fuller and warmer, or just the opposite, so that leaves upper mids...

Does any single range equal PUNCH? I guess that would be up to the OP's definition.

And then there's the murky PRESENCE, sometimes an area below OR above what's labeled TREBLE depending on the manufactuer/designer, sometimes a little more vague term tied to tube amp liveliness over a broader upper midrange & treble area...

But as Bill intimated, if people actually knew how to work their knobs they wouldn't need to go any further unless they bought deficient gear... they could scratch their own itch of whatever they thought was PUNCHY or had presence, without ever needing to define any terms, just pick the right bass and strings, pluck or pick in the right area of the instrument, and turn the knobs...

 

[Jesuguru]

Amateurish newbie advice: Sounds like a biamping solution could be in order. You could put different wattage - and different eq - into the different cabs, to better tailor the *overall* sound to your liking (without worrying about total load, matching impedance, etc). And would not a crossover allow the 4x10 to handle the deeper freq (i.e. act as sub), and direct more of the upper range to the 2x10? Might sound more to your liking, might not.

 

[Mr. Foxen]

Does any single range equal PUNCH? I guess that would be up to the OP's definition.

I reckon not, at least for what my idea of punch is, I run two amps, a scooped clean rig and a middly guitar rig, and when the guitar side is clean, there is a 'punch' to the overall sound that isn't their with either rig alone. But most of it is in the way you play and mute.

 

[woody357]

Let me make this clear, I know what knobs do what, and how to use them on my amp. My post was more out of curiosity than anything else. I am still leaning toward getting the 210, to match up with the 410; because it will give me the versatility suggested by KJung This forum can be a great place to get information without spending money first, in the end my ears will decide if I’m getting what I want to hear. My choice of words may have been misleading but it is what it is, just as when I hear someone say they are not cutting threw the mix I think they want to be louder, but then that’s just me. I think it is safe to say the genre of music I play as well as my taste in tone, and definition of punch is different than most of you. So may I suggest if you are not trying to be helpful, try not to be insulting!

 

[billfitzmaurice]

And would not a crossover allow the 4x10 to handle the deeper freq (i.e. act as sub), and direct more of the upper range to the 2x10?

Illogical, as the two cabs have the same frequency response.

 

[lbwdog]

OP: Did you say the amp is an 800 RB? If so, you cannot add another cab to the same output channel because of impedance. You can, however, run the 4Ohm cab out of the "Lo"(300w.) side, and the 8 Ohm cab out of the "Hi"(100w.) side. Just don't engage the bi-amp switch.

 

[greenboy]

leaning toward getting the 210, to match up with the 410; because it will give me the versatility suggested by KJung

Versatility == "punch"? Or Versatility == "presence"? Now someone is more confused. Are you now seeking some other goal than what you posted at the top of the thread?

My choice of words may have been misleading but it is what it is

Which is why you perhaps should clarify what you actually mean. But whatever you mean by though two terms, two cabs is never a lesser thing for a bassist, if they match well.

 

[woody357]

OP: Did you say the amp is an 800 RB? If so, you cannot add another cab to the same output channel because of impedance. You can, however, run the 4Ohm cab out of the "Lo"(300w.) side, and the 8 Ohm cab out of the "Hi"(100w.) side. Just don't engage the bi-amp switch.

It was a typo i was saying that I have never had to turn up with my Eden 550, or my GK 800rbm, the Eden handles a 2 ohm load, but doesn't bi-amp, the GK, can handle a 4 ohm load, or a 4 ohm load, and a 8 ohm if bi amp.

 

[MikeBass]

To answer your question in very basic terms...IMO yes.
But I would maybe try ones that wouldn't take you amp below 4 ohms. Unless your amp can handle it.

There are a ton of variables that have been pointed out, but in the end, you are adding more speakers and sorry guys, real world gigging (which a lot of you need to do more of to understand) adding more speakers is the fastest (although maybe not the best) way to give you more of everything if you keep your volume the same- or want to get louder.

For example, I used a single 410 on a gig. The next night, because I could, I brought my second one. Didn't change my volume, but changed how much "air" I was moving.
I did indeed have a cleaner, punchy-er, more clear low end.
(Granted, I went from one 8 ohm cab to two 8 ohm cabs- 4 ohms running 900 watts...).
I could care less what any of you may lay claim to, but there is no replacement for just adding more speakers.
I'll put my two SWR 410 cabs up against pretty much any other "single cab solution" design.
Not much, if anything can replace the impact of multiple speakers. 810's with a bunch of power behind them really is a thing to behold on a gig. Loud or not!

Deep in all things techy regarding cabs, sure there is plenty to discuss. And I agree with a lot of it.

I used a 210/410 rig for years with great results and never once had any issues.

Another thing at play here, and IMO is a BIG factor, depending on where you play, having speakers a little higher up closer to your head will give you a percieved difference as well.

You may be best to just get you cab off the floor and closer to your head and use a little more EQ.

In general terms and not to over think things here- which sometimes a lot of us do (me included), try it and see if it actually sounds good to you.

Use your ears. Not your eyes.
Sometimes what "looks" like a bad idea, is the best thing since sliced bread or a 15/6 cab.....