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Adler Sub Contra Bass

#21
The Low C# can be heard as well as felt.the problem most people have with Low Bass is the misconception that it is and will be muddy.that is not the case at all with what I have done(yes you still may need at least 500wts,but thats minor)my main concern from the start was a Low C# string(open note)that would have a bell like brillance.it would for me be very non logical to attempt to get clarity out of dullnest and mud.as far as someones Low F# not coming thru it could be a # of reasons,but if you go into the session with the concept and understanding that good muddinest represents Bass and forget that with out clarity Bass really does not exist then you will have a pretty bad sounding Bass track.and the ombudsman I will be doing some sound tracks for all interested very soon.
 
#22
I think the point in the earlier post about a "rockin' sound system" raises a good issue. While I think the idea of this instrument is an inspiration (tips hat to Jauqo), I can't help but wonder if it will only be possible to enjoy it in live performances?

Even big subwoofer boxes loaded with (2) 18" drivers are doing well to get down close to 40 Hz at high output levels (Don't believe me? An independent comparison was recently run by ProSoundWeb.com - check it out: Link Removed ). While a system to get down to 17 Hz can certainly be built, there are only a small number of people who own personal sound systems that could do justice to this kind of bass. So a recording of it (which would also have to be done with proper care) will be almost impossible to play back with any fidelity.

This is NOT negativism, just trying to bring out potential problems with the use of an instrument that any TBer can see the wonderfulness of.
 
#23
Only in live situations no.thru my findings I have learned that some 18 inch speakers cant take essesive low end,thats one of the reasons I choose to use at least 2 4x10 cabs because for me thay have better low end response balance for what I'm going for.18's for the Sub contra bass,at least for me lack firmness in the out put of it's low end and causes essesive excaping of low end clarity thus preventing the proper firmness for sound output.kind of like a floppy B string.Garry Goodman did some recordings and it it came out pretty descent,I've done some as well and they came out pretty descent as well.it is very much easy with todays recording products,To get the sound and clarity is more than possible it's just like going at any other pre,recording,post aspect of a recording project.it's pretty much like a more traditionaly tuned Bass going thru a rig and it's just not the right rig for at the moment unclear reasons,and once that player decides to seek out what would be best then and only then will that player have the sound that he/she hears in their head,same applys in recording situations.I'm sure we have all heard standard Basses sounding bad coming out of the rig they were coming out of.and as far as the Surine Sub contra, it is a very well put together Bass(it was the very first one) but Scott was just not pushing it well enough. he never mentioned it anywhere.I no longer have it,it belongs to a friend of mine now and he loves it and is very happy with it.I do admit I miss it sometimes.
 
#24
Well - on the C#, the second harmonic will probably be louder than the fundamental anyway. At 34Hz, there are a slew of boxes currently on the market that will handle that frequency pretty well.

Here's an idea --- consider putting a high-pass filter into the bass's electronics. You could cut out everything below 25Hz or so. This would save a lot of stress on the speaker, and I bet the overall sound would not really be much different.

It's a funny idea -- tune even lower but cut out the fundamental. However, the harmonic spectrum from the lower notes is quite different than it would be from the next octave up (all those odd multiples of 17Hz filling it in).
 
#25
I am in my studio, and I have the Adler 11 string plugged into a StudioMaster concole, EQ has been defeated and I am coming out a pair of near field JBL 4406 monitors. I am playing through a 50 watt monitor amp , at a low volume. Due to the Adler bass and Villex pick ups , I can hear the low C# right now and it's very cool. The low F# and C# strings are strong and clear as a bell when played through the Basson cabs with the 200 ounce magnets. I wouldn't dare crank the bass up through the near field monitors ,but they reproduce the string on my direct to HHB 850 stand alone cd burner( zero compression). I can record some grooves to sampled , sequence drum tracks on Sunday and if I can find a place to post them , you will hear that string ,safely through your speakers.

Also , I had to learn how to play the C# string and where to pluck it. One can theorise about this string ,it's over tones etc. , however you need to play one and experience it for your self.

I don't think this string will sound great on just any bass or speaker cab. I have played the string a number of amps/speakers and they are just not designed to handel the string . As far as cutting out the fundamental- why settle for anything less than the whole package?
 
#27
Bernie Connors said:
Garry,

If they're mp3's you should be able to attach them to the thread right here, as long as they're not too big.

Can't wait to hear them!

-Bernie
Click to expand...

Thanks Bernie. If you guys tell me what to put on them , i'll do that. Just bass, just C#, notes on only that string ,or mixed with F#, B and E ,or with drum tracks . let me know and I'll do it by Sunday night Pacific time.
 
#28
Ninestring said:
Thanks Bernie. If you guys tell me what to put on them , i'll do that. Just bass, just C#, notes on only that string ,or mixed with F#, B and E ,or with drum tracks . let me know and I'll do it by Sunday night Pacific time.
Click to expand...

Hi Garry-
I would say to just show what the bass can do across it's full spectrum, utilizing all strings. Do it in the key of C# or something so you can use the open low string a bit.
 
#29
Ninestring said:
Thanks Bernie. If you guys tell me what to put on them , i'll do that. Just bass, just C#, notes on only that string ,or mixed with F#, B and E ,or with drum tracks . let me know and I'll do it by Sunday night Pacific time.
Click to expand...

Awesome, Garry! I think the idea of C#, F#, B and E string stuff would be really cool. Really give those subs a workout. :p Sometime you'll have to throw up an mp3 of you playing some chordal stuff on the Adler 11. That would be really cool to hear.

-Bernie
 
#30
Jared Morante said:
Hi Garry-
I would say to just show what the bass can do across it's full spectrum, utilizing all strings. Do it in the key of C# or something so you can use the open low string a bit.
Click to expand...
Jared ,

I would , but the bass range we are discussing is Jauqo's signature 4 string. I had the great fortune to play this bass as NAMM and Jauqo's concept applied to Mike Adler's craftmanship was definitly a " mind blower". The 11 string is another story. I know Jauqo may be busy this weekend ,so I can record some ten second clips. If you want 11 string across the board ,ok. I wanted to concentrate on the C# string. I'll log in by Sunday and try to post audio by Sunday evening. BTW, the C# feels better live , but sounds cool on MP3.

And also- I have played Adler's fretless sub contra, regular 4 string, 5, 6 and 8 and I have to tell you guys that these basses made what seemed hard to play on my other basses effortless. No hype. The 11 string plays itself, with my fingers.
 
#31
Ninestring said:
Jared ,

And also- I have played Adler's fretless sub contra, regular 4 string, 5, 6 and 8 and I have to tell you guys that these basses made what seemed hard to play on my other basses effortless. No hype. The 11 string plays itself, with my fingers.
Click to expand...

Ironic, I was just over at Michael's site looking at the fretless sub-contra. Very cool looking bass. Great idea as well. Can't wait for the site to be updated so we can click on the big pics.

As far as the clips go, I would love to hear the full range of the Adler 11 as well. But I'm sure whatever you put up will be a mind blowing experience given what kind of equipment we're dealing with here. I would also like to hear the sub-contra fretless. Jauqo.....you out there? :p

-Bernie
 
#33
Ninestring said:
Jared ,

I would , but the bass range we are discussing is Jauqo's signature 4 string. I had the great fortune to play this bass as NAMM and Jauqo's concept applied to Mike Adler's craftmanship was definitly a " mind blower". The 11 string is another story. I know Jauqo may be busy this weekend ,so I can record some ten second clips. If you want 11 string across the board ,ok. I wanted to concentrate on the C# string. I'll log in by Sunday and try to post audio by Sunday evening. BTW, the C# feels better live , but sounds cool on MP3.
Click to expand...

I knew you were talking about the four string. I meant the full range, C#-E. :)

I just wanted to hear the whole bass in action.
 
#34
NewWorldMan said:
Wow. Funny, I had the idea of a bass tuned E-A-D-G, but down an octave from standard. This takes it even furthur. The mind boggles. Two questions: What's the scale length? What are the string guages?
Click to expand...

mutantbassist said:
that bass exists
:p
You are a bit late...
and it had about 38" (or 39"?) scale... sorry i dont remember, neither the brand, neither the thread title, nor a website... sorry
Click to expand...

Here ya go......

Link Removed
 
#35
the ombudsman said:
Jauqo, I'd really like to hear some samples of your sub-contra-bass. I'm with the "too low to hear the fundamental" camp, but after reading your "Low C# theory" on Adler's website, I must say I'm intrigued.

Since I'm trapped in Canada's deepest place, I can't try the sub-contra-bass for myself, so it would be really cool if you posted some soundclips. :)

Cheers!
Click to expand...


In pipe organ design, they generally figure about 20 Hz is the lowest you can hear. In psycho-acoustics, they've shown that you don't have to hear the fundamental to perceive the note - the harmonic information causes your brain to "assume" the fundamental. So I'm thinking you can "hear" the C# even if it's not within your natural hearing range.
 
#36
bassmantele said:
In pipe organ design, they generally figure about 20 Hz is the lowest you can hear. In psycho-acoustics, they've shown that you don't have to hear the fundamental to perceive the note - the harmonic information causes your brain to "assume" the fundamental. So I'm thinking you can "hear" the C# even if it's not within your natural hearing range.
Click to expand...


Thank you- Great point. Out of context, I can play the string ,you hear something ,and it sounds/feels good. When I play other notes on other strings,and say , end up on first fret D, your ear "puts' it all together. I owned a Morton pipe organ built in the 1920's/ The "blower" was bigger than a washing machine. (Turbine). I had a redwood 32 ' bass rank and it was beyond description. I still have the bass pedals.

I just got off a gig at my neighborhood Ritz-Carlton. Bass, drums , keys , tenor,trumpet and bone and we all sang. Someone calle "Mustang Sally " ( I know ,why ?). In E major. On the "ride sally ride" I hit the E00.With everyone playing ,we all " heard " low E. A sonically devistating experience. I only used 7 strings, C#-G the entire evening. That's a different twist on 7 strings.

auqo- good call on that low C# string , thanks for opening another door. Both you and Mike Adler have given me enough to keep me busy for a while , I guess I'll be giving the PS2 back to my daughter.

Jared- I'll keep the audio to C#-E.
 
#38
kmacleish said:
Unbelieveable . . . a 4-string bass whose highest open string is 41.20 hertz. And the others are:

B = 30.87
F#= 23.12
c#= 17.32

It boggles the mind to think of an amplification system that could do this justice. The only speaker I am aware of that could hit that kind of low end is the Sound Physics Lab (SPL) Contrabass (interesting coincidence of names, huh?), which is rated at an unbelieveable -3db at 15 Hz. And to get any sort of definition at those frequencies . . .excuse me, my mind is boggling . . . This would probably have to be outlawed in California for fear of inducing the next big earthquake.

I WANT one!!
Click to expand...

actually, bag end makes a sub woofer that would have no problem with the low c#. other companies, such as accugroove, do as well.
 
#40
Here is a decending C# major scale ending up on the low C# . It's not my best take , but see if you can make out the last three notes played on the C# string. I'll put up some different mp3 files if this works ok.I ran out of time today ,so this recording is "on the fly ".


When I played this on Real Player, it rattles,which it doesn't do when played back from Peak on my computer. Ig nore the buzz ,it's not the bass or strings.
 

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