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Advice for young guy playing with older gents

#82
10cc said:
No anger here at all, just a different way of looking at something. Really not angry at all.
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Oh, okay. You don't believe in paying your musical dues? So how did you learn to play? If you don't get out and experience it, how can you know how to do it?
In writing, they tell you to write what you have lived. To me, the same goes for music, Play what you have lived. To me it doesn't matter whether it is an original or a "cover". There are good and bad cover bands. There are good and bad original bands. And I am trying to think of a famous band that didn't start out playing covers. Music is music no matter who writes it.
Personally, if I had to play only originals, it would be very boring. Everything I write sounds like something somebody else already did.
Nothing wrong with playing originals. My point was it is Arrogant to think you are too good to play somebody elses music.
 
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#86
Gravedigger Dav said:
Oh, okay. You don't believe in paying your musical dues? So how did you learn to play? If you don't get out and experience it, how can you know how to do it?
In writing, they tell you to write what you have lived. To me, the same goes for music, Play what you have lived. To me it doesn't matter whether it is an original or a "cover". There are good and bad cover bands. There are good and bad original bands. And I am trying to think of a famous band that didn't start out playing covers. Music is music no matter who writes it.
Personally, if I had to play only originals, it would be very boring. Everything I write sounds like something somebody else already did.
Nothing wrong with playing originals. My point was it is Arrogant to think you are too good to play somebody elses music.
Click to expand...

I don't want to value or devalue any other person's point of view, but for me, in my own experience, I was one kind of player when I wrote and exclusively played originals. I was good at what I knew, and I had some level of skill, but it was when I really drilled on other people's playing that I started to discover what I was capable of. I don't write much these days, but hopefully I shall again, and when I do, I will probably use more changes and interesting stuff, musically, instead of just depending on melody and lyrics, which is what I did before.

I like my original music, but players don't, mostly because it doesn't offer much depth in the music itself. I feel covers have done a lot to expand my range as a player.
 
#88
mellowinman said:
I don't want to value or devalue any other person's point of view, but for me, in my own experience, I was one kind of player when I wrote and exclusively played originals. I was good at what I knew, and I had some level of skill, but it was when I really drilled on other people's playing that I started to discover what I was capable of. I don't write much these days, but hopefully I shall again, and when I do, I will probably use more changes and interesting stuff, musically, instead of just depending on melody and lyrics, which is what I did before.

I like my original music, but players don't, mostly because it doesn't offer much depth in the music itself. I feel covers have done a lot to expand my range as a player.
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IOW, different strokes for different folks?

Whenever someone tells me that people in cover bands are not musicians or otherwise are posers, I say, so, then, you don't respect the members of the Chicago Philharmonic orchestra. Or David Oistrakh, Fritz Kreisler, Giuseppe Tartini, or Jascha Heifetz.

Writing music and playing music are two completely different skill sets. Anyone focusing on one who insults those pursuing the other is steeped in narcissism. But narcissism is something most of us grow out of, in time.
 
#89
Gravedigger Dav said:
Oh, okay. You don't believe in paying your musical dues? So how did you learn to play? If you don't get out and experience it, how can you know how to do it?
In writing, they tell you to write what you have lived. To me, the same goes for music, Play what you have lived. To me it doesn't matter whether it is an original or a "cover". There are good and bad cover bands. There are good and bad original bands. And I am trying to think of a famous band that didn't start out playing covers. Music is music no matter who writes it.
Personally, if I had to play only originals, it would be very boring. Everything I write sounds like something somebody else already did.
Nothing wrong with playing originals. My point was it is Arrogant to think you are too good to play somebody elses music.
Click to expand...
Never even made a hint of "Being to good to play other peoples music". On the dues issue, playing Hendrix and whatever else by somebody else wether in your bedroom or in a local bars or weddings or events isn't much paying dues either. I learned to play and continually learn to play and write music with the conscience effort to not sound like something before. If a lick or riff I think up reminds me of something I've heard myself or others do I sh!t can it right then, I try not write lyrics using the same words or subject matter. Basically try and be original as possible. Now that doesn't go without saying that I haven't been influenced by anybody, band or anything but I don't need to play other songs to get me where I'm at creatively. Could I play the Lemon Song or some Rush or some whatever sure anybody can. As good as the OG artist? Never.
 
#90
I wouldn't limit your "horizon expanding" to any particular genre. Take any gig you can get your hands on in any style you can get comfortable with. If the gig calls for self mutilation or instrument destruction you may want to pass. Other than that, anything you play will add something to your musical vocabulary and you can't practice live stage time. Listen to what the old folks have to say, steal their chops, learn how to fit into the song and don't be afraid to voice your own ideas. You may not be the only sideman on the gig and the guitar player you meet on the country gig may be your next original jazz co-writer.
 
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#91
every 'original' tune stands on the shoulders of what came before

I haven't heard anything radically 'new' since 1970 - I guess hip hop is a new form but it's extremely narrow musically & when you're sampling tunes from 1968 it's hardly fresh
 
#92
frnjplayer said:
I wouldn't limit your "horizon expanding" to any particular genre. Take any gig you can get your hands on in any style you can get comfortable with. If the gig calls for self mutilation or instrument destruction you may want to pass. Other than that, anything you play will add something to your musical vocabulary and you can't practice live stage time. Listen to what the old folks have to say, steal their chops, learn how to fit into the song and don't be afraid to voice your own ideas. You may not be the only sideman on the gig and the guitar player you meet on the country gig may be your next original jazz co-writer.
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I don't even limit it to one art form. I spend almost as much time with graphics for band logos and flyers as I do woodshedding the music. I seriously enjoy both artistic outlets.
 
#94
pnchad said:
every 'original' tune stands on the shoulders of what came before

I haven't heard anything radically 'new' since 1970 - I guess hip hop is a new form but it's extremely narrow musically & when you're sampling tunes from 1968 it's hardly fresh
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And lets be frank: Sometimes the "radically new" was just one of many "radically new" things that were thrown against the wall to see what stuck. I'm convnced to this day that some musical styles were accidental mistakes that sounded good so they ran with it.

Come to think of it, stainless steel was invented by a guy trying to come up with a stronger gun barrel. He noticed on his stack of failed attempts that one of the barrels was not rusting. And here we are.
 
#95
10cc said:
Never even made a hint of "Being to good to play other peoples music". On the dues issue, playing Hendrix and whatever else by somebody else wether in your bedroom or in a local bars or weddings or events isn't much paying dues either. I learned to play and continually learn to play and write music with the conscience effort to not sound like something before. If a lick or riff I think up reminds me of something I've heard myself or others do I sh!t can it right then, I try not write lyrics using the same words or subject matter. Basically try and be original as possible. Now that doesn't go without saying that I haven't been influenced by anybody, band or anything but I don't need to play other songs to get me where I'm at creatively. Could I play the Lemon Song or some Rush or some whatever sure anybody can. As good as the OG artist? Never.
Click to expand...

The situation I'm in now is that I cannot gig if I tried, because I cannot put a solid, dedicated band together. Even ones that claim to be "established" or have a "song list" are pretty flaky at best. The drummer in a former band of mine told me something I find to be very true. "If you've got a gig/album worth of music supposedly and the band wouldn't be ready to gig in 3 months time, you need to pick up your stuff and walk away." I honestly wish I would have listened to him on sooo many projects lol.

I have the material, it's just hard to find people who want to dedicate the time. My first question is always whether they like the music or not and the first thing I ask of them is to bounce some stuff of theirs or what they like off of me. If they are down with it, I'm at a loss for logic on what keeps them from digging their heels in. It's incredibly frustrating, I don't know what I'd do with a band where everyone tossed in a part and formed a song out of it.
 
#96
My first successful band (and by successful I mean we played a lot) came from playing with older (by 20+ years ) especially the singer/guitarist. They had real world gigging experience, which you'll never learn any other way besides doing it. The singer/guitarist also showed my the entrainment aspect, which at that point (20 years old) I had kind of overlooked, and only worried about musicianship. And I brought a lot of good stuff away from that time that I still use today.
 
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#97
So to change pace a bit, I've gotten a hit back from a band I inquired about!

Andrew,
Thanks for the reply,
All sounds good. Please give me your age. It's not a deal breaker.
We're all in our 50's. Also, what kind of bas rig do you have?
Thanks,
Steve [cell number] texts/calls are faster.

Perfect...I'll give you guys updates as it goes :thumbsup:
 
#98
KevInDaBassment said:
So to change pace a bit, I've gotten a hit back from a band I inquired about!

Andrew,
Thanks for the reply,
All sounds good. Please give me your age. It's not a deal breaker.
We're all in our 50's. Also, what kind of bas rig do you have?
Thanks,
Steve [cell number] texts/calls are faster.

Perfect...I'll give you guys updates as it goes :thumbsup:
Click to expand...
CALL, do not text.
DO IT NOW !
 

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