Forget the idea of competing, get a IEM system and a bass monitor and tell the guitard to turn down until he can hear it. 
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Advice, Im buying a new rig
- Thread starter ArmoredAngels
- Start date
You may need more power than that Eden - the Carvin B1500 seems to get a lot of love and is very reasonably priced for the spec:
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1900W RMS at 2 ohms should help to shut the guitarist up - used with appropriate cabs of course.
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1900W RMS at 2 ohms should help to shut the guitarist up - used with appropriate cabs of course.
Useless low end, to me anyway, is having a rig on stage pump out a TON or even a modest amount of low end and while the PA sub woofers are within 10 feet of where you are standing. You end up creating a massive wall of standing waves between 40hz and 150hz. This leads to you not hearing a darn thing you are playing. At many of these shows, I end up decreasing the low end from around 150hz and lower from my rig so I can hear the low mids and up. I end up hearing/feeling the PA's low end while still hearing my stage rig. Basically a free bi-amp rig. Less low end from the stage rig ALWAYS gives the sound guy more room to adjust your tone through the PA.
I always felt the extra low end of the XST is useless to add to the 410XLT. I got rid of my 210XST and added another 410XLT. I had massive volume with PLENTY of low end. The XLT's strength is in the mids anyway. Coupled with Eden head, the 410XLT has some decent low end response.
If your rig works for you, then enjoy it. But I play shows with PA support 95% of the time. Recreating the "brown note" on stage is not my goal; I just want to hear myself.
Not me - if I was you, Id forget the sub and add another incidental 1515/66/T and slave it with a second amp instead.
You're right that really is the best way to go.
OK - I see where you are coming from now, Makes sense. I was talking standalone rig.
Geez... for dudes packing plenty juice in the bass department, some of ya'll do an awful lot of whining about how much amp the guitarists shouldn't have.
Of course you're right they don't need a full stack of 12s and one will usually do the job. But any that choose the stack are automatically idiots, with no concept of volume? Really? It's impossible for them to manage volume levels if x speakers are present and running? They can't spread those cabs around the stage and aim them in any way that might sound good without blowing FOH out of the water?
Come on. Yeah I'd choose the single... for beaming reasons though, not because of volume. But that doesn't make them idiots, or guarantee crappy sound.
I keep up with no less than 16 12" guitar speakers pushed by hundreds of watts with no issues at all. With only 2 12" speakers of my own, and a mid. And none of it overwhelms an unamplified drummer at rehearsals.
Must be magic.
Of course you're right they don't need a full stack of 12s and one will usually do the job. But any that choose the stack are automatically idiots, with no concept of volume? Really? It's impossible for them to manage volume levels if x speakers are present and running? They can't spread those cabs around the stage and aim them in any way that might sound good without blowing FOH out of the water?
Come on. Yeah I'd choose the single... for beaming reasons though, not because of volume. But that doesn't make them idiots, or guarantee crappy sound.
I keep up with no less than 16 12" guitar speakers pushed by hundreds of watts with no issues at all. With only 2 12" speakers of my own, and a mid. And none of it overwhelms an unamplified drummer at rehearsals.
Must be magic.
makohund said:Geez... for dudes packing plenty juice in the bass department, some of ya'll do an awful lot of whining about how much amp the guitarists shouldn't have.
Of course you're right they don't need a full stack of 12s and one will usually do the job. But any that choose the stack are automatically idiots, with no concept of volume? Really? It's impossible for them to manage volume levels if x speakers are present and running? They can't spread those cabs around the stage and aim them in any way that might sound good without blowing FOH out of the water?
Come on. Yeah I'd choose the single... for beaming reasons though, not because of volume. But that doesn't make them idiots, or guarantee crappy sound.
I keep up with no less than 16 12" guitar speakers pushed by hundreds of watts with no issues at all. With only 2 12" speakers of my own, and a mid. And none of it overwhelms an unamplified drummer at rehearsals.
Must be magic.
Our guitarist has a marshall tube head (at least 100, possibly more watts) and an 812 full stack. I have no problem whatsoever keeping up with my 700 rbii and neo 212. Maybe he tames it more than I realize, but sometimes I actually have to turn down. We play pretty loud too. Im totally lost when I read about an svt cl and 810e getting drown out by tiny guitar rigs. Really?
I use a 4x10/1x15 ampeg stack run by a Little Mark III in a similiar situation as the OP. (my guitarrists run 4x12's though, not 8x12's. One has a Peavey 6505+ and im not sure what head the other guittarist has, but they are both 100w+ tube heads, and are loud as sh*t!!!) we do djent/post hardcore type stuff and our volumes are usually perfect without anyone being drowned out. Hope this helps.
Not magic, but truly exceptional. You're a lucky bassist.Geez... for dudes packing plenty juice in the bass department, some of ya'll do an awful lot of whining about how much amp the guitarists shouldn't have.
Of course you're right they don't need a full stack of 12s and one will usually do the job. But any that choose the stack are automatically idiots, with no concept of volume? Really? It's impossible for them to manage volume levels if x speakers are present and running? They can't spread those cabs around the stage and aim them in any way that might sound good without blowing FOH out of the water?
Come on. Yeah I'd choose the single... for beaming reasons though, not because of volume. But that doesn't make them idiots, or guarantee crappy sound.
I keep up with no less than 16 12" guitar speakers pushed by hundreds of watts with no issues at all. With only 2 12" speakers of my own, and a mid. And none of it overwhelms an unamplified drummer at rehearsals.
Must be magic.
OP may be so lucky, but being the relative beginner hooking up with 200w of menace the odds are those watts are in the hands of a graduate of the bedroom.
In many ways, yes. I am lucky. I'm working with some great folks, who have an ear for what things should sound like. (Doesn't hurt that most of 'em play multiple instruments, and are decent recording/live sound engineers when called for.)
I don't think in my entire lifetime of playing I've ever had to tell a guitar player to turn down. They've all been the type that know it when they hear it, and twist the knobs down themselves before I ever have to, setting it to match well with the drummer.
I know they all aren't like that, so I appreciate it a lot. They have big rigs (as do I) precisely because the genre is hard rock/metal, requires a lot of volume, and good PA support isn't always a given. I hate to see good folks lumped in with meatheads for no good reason.
That said... bring as much firepower to the party as you can reasonably manage. It'll sound much better for this stuff. If you can keep up with a drummer swinging for all he's worth, you'll be fine. If the guitarists are louder than that, tell 'em to turn the hell down, they're doing it wrong. And if they whine "but I gotta crank it to get mah tone, man" then yeah... the answer is "so don't bring so many dang speakers".
I don't think in my entire lifetime of playing I've ever had to tell a guitar player to turn down. They've all been the type that know it when they hear it, and twist the knobs down themselves before I ever have to, setting it to match well with the drummer.
I know they all aren't like that, so I appreciate it a lot. They have big rigs (as do I) precisely because the genre is hard rock/metal, requires a lot of volume, and good PA support isn't always a given. I hate to see good folks lumped in with meatheads for no good reason.
That said... bring as much firepower to the party as you can reasonably manage. It'll sound much better for this stuff. If you can keep up with a drummer swinging for all he's worth, you'll be fine. If the guitarists are louder than that, tell 'em to turn the hell down, they're doing it wrong. And if they whine "but I gotta crank it to get mah tone, man" then yeah... the answer is "so don't bring so many dang speakers".
That's good advice but good luck finding a single cab to get a 200w valve amp dimed. Pull half the valves maybe. And still pity anyone on its line of fire.
Was thinking the same thing - my band has a Triple Rec half stack on either side of me, and I have no problems whatsoever with my M-pulse 600/PH810 rig keeping up...
- georgestrings
The worst part about that exact instance I was talking about, is that it was a rockabilly group, and not a very good one at that
georgestrings said:
I can easily keep up with my rig, also. But is a guitar rig that big really needed for anything?
What kind of music are you playing? Where? Just curious. Our guitar player brings in a Fender Hot Rod 2x12 combo and that is more than loud enough even for outdoors. My Neox212 can keep up without breaking a sweat. But we're a basic bar band and don't play huge arenas or anything.
If you can't keep up with an 8X10 that's pretty wicked loud.
If you can't keep up with an 8X10 that's pretty wicked loud.
Probably not... IME, a 100 watt tube halfstack can get unbelievably loud... I don't mind playing loud, but if you're drowning out the drummer, what's the point???
- georgestrings
