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Advice needed

Outsider

Outsider

Jul 6, 2009
233
19
42
Cape Town, South Africa
#1
Hi

I've been playing bass for a while now, about 6 years I think and I seem to be stuck in the same place.

My style of playing is rather basic, mostly root notes with the odd 5th and/or 3rd. Sometimes I'll play an octave or head down the the 12th fret and play some high notes.

I own quite a few books:
  • Bass Guitar for Dummies - Patrick Pfieffer
  • The Complete Idiots Guide to Playing Bass Guitar - David Hodge
  • The Everything Bass Guitar Book - Eric Starr and Nelson Starr
  • Heavy Metal Techniques for Bass Guitar - Stephan Richter
  • Mel Bay's Complete Book Of Bass Essentials - Bunny Brunel
  • Bass Fitness - Josquin Des Pres
  • Learn To Play Bass Guitar - Phil Capone
  • Walking Bass Line Module System, Volume 1: Triad Modules - Todd Johnson
  • Hal Leonard Bass Method, Complete Edition - Ed Friedland
  • Building Walking Bass Lines - Ed Friedland
  • Expanding Walking Bass Lines - Ed Friedland

I've also been browsing this forum and trying to get some tips and tricks, but wherever I go I hit a dead end.
I have to admit that I haven't yet finished one of these books, I loose interest or get bored because the book is too easy or I'm don't feel as though I'm learning something I can apply or it gets to hard to quick.

I play in a church band, we mostly play Hillsong type stuff. I get given a chord sheet and play along to the chords. I'm never sure what scale we're playing in, I mostly trust the chords.

I know the key is to practice and practice, however all I'm really doing is getting more familiar with the fretboard (which isn't a bad thing) and learning other peoples riffs.

My goal for this year is to "get better at bass". I want to feel as though I've broken free of this plateau I'm stuck on and feel as though I've made an improvement.

I would like to be able to play more then the root note (and 3rd/5th) and be able to make things interesting. I've tried over and over and bought books but nothing seems to help.

May be I'm working hard enough at a book end giving up too quickly and moving on to the next book? I'm not sure.

Can anyone give some advice or pointers as to what I should do?
 
#3
Outsider said:
I play in a church band, we mostly play Hillsong type stuff. I get given a chord sheet and play along to the chords. I'm never sure what scale we're playing in, I mostly trust the chords.
Click to expand...

Get a copy of "Edly's Music Theory for Practical People" [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Learn basic harmony from it. That way you can tell from the chord sheets what scales are being used in the songs. Knowing the key and how the chords work in a key will help you find the notes that generally sound best as passing tones between the roots and fifths.

You already have "Building Walking Bass Lines" by Ed Freidland so I suggest sticking with that one because it'll help explain a lot. While you might not want to do a typical walking bass line in some of the songs, knowing how and why those ideas in walking bass lines work will help you tremendously in figuring out how to go from chord to chord.

Also, work on trusting your ear. Music is music so it's not all about the bass. Can you figure out how to play the melodies to simple songs like "Amazing Grace" or "Happy Birthday"? If not, that's a good place to start because the PROCESS of learning to play "Amazing Grace" by ear is exactly the same as learning to play the bass parts to "Jesus, Be A Fence Around Me"- it's just that the Fred Hammond song has a lot more going on. But the process is the same.

For "Happy Birthday", play the D on the A string at the 7th fret. That's your first note. Sing it as you play it. Now sing the next note of the song. LISTEN carefully to what you sing. Now, determine where to go next. There are only three choices- that next note is either above, or below, or the same as the first note. Which is it? Then if it's above or below, is it close or far away?

That's all we do when we play by ear- well, after some work we start identifying common intervals so our fingers find them on the neck faster. The first two notes of "Here Comes The Bride" we learn are on the same fret, one string apart. The "My Girl" intro is the root and fifth, with the fifth played first. "Sunshine Of Your Love" starts with a repeated note then goes down a whole step (two frets). Your ears and hands start to learn these common things and you find yourself "hearing" things faster and having a better idea of where they lie on the neck quicker.

But it's a process that's going to require you to focus on things and keep slogging through the plateaus where you feel like you've been working with no visible progress for a long time- then there's a sudden connection and you see what you've built up.

Good luck, and have fun on the journey!!!:hyper:

John
 
#4
JTE said:
Get a copy of "Edly's Music Theory for Practical People" [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
Click to expand...
I'll definitely get it! Thanks!

JTE said:
You already have "Building Walking Bass Lines" by Ed Freidland so I suggest sticking with that one because it'll help explain a lot. While you might not want to do a typical walking bass line in some of the songs, knowing how and why those ideas in walking bass lines work will help you tremendously in figuring out how to go from chord to chord.
Click to expand...

Thats exactly why I own walking bass line books. I figured that it would teach me how/why and I'd be able to apply that knowledge to other music. Glad to know I was on the right path.


JTE said:
But it's a process that's going to require you to focus on things and keep slogging through the plateaus where you feel like you've been working with no visible progress for a long time- then there's a sudden connection and you see what you've built up.

Good luck, and have fun on the journey!!!:hyper:
Click to expand...

Thanks for the encouragement and advice. This is exactly the type of thing I was looking for.
 
#5
Some time what we want is not what goes with the type of music we play. I'm Country and Country is roots and fives with some chromatic runs to the next chord. If I go beyond that I get fish eyes from the other band members.

Praise music may not need more than that. Look at your church hymnals - bass clef - lowest note - I bet you will find a bunch of roots and fives with an occasional 3 thrown in. Now that said......

Chord tones.
Roots, 5's and 8's are generic and can be used under any chord.
The 6 is neutral. Stick some in it'll work. I like R-5-6-8.
The 2 and 4 make good passing notes. R-2-5-8 or R-4-6-8.
The 3 and 7 are specific. But think of it this way - a 3 is generic to major chords so R-3-5-3 is generic to all major chords and R-b3-5-b3 is generic to all minor chords.
The 7 is specific to maj7 chords and the b7 is specific to dominant seventh and minor seventh chords. Just remember which one you are playing with.

There are hundreds of bass lines we could use, however, sometime just roots and fives with an occasional 3 thrown in are all that is needed.

On the books - I like to go back and read some of my old instruction books, with out the bass in my hands, just read as you would a novel. I usually pick up something that went over my head the first time through the book. Take one with you when you tag along when THE WIFE goes shopping - find a daddy chair and browse through them again.

Good luck.
 
#9
MalcolmAmos said:
Some time what we want is not what goes with the type of music we play. I'm Country and Country is roots and fives with some chromatic runs to the next chord. If I go beyond that I get fish eyes from the other band members.
Click to expand...

bherman said:
You might also look for opportunities to play other kinds of music. Different types of music require different styles and approaches, and that will hlep open your ears.
Click to expand...

Bam! Even though I am always reading and learning and practicing on my own I've found that getting into other bands with other styles is the real motivator and learning arena for new knowledge and techniques....

Even if it's not a formal band setting, a weekly jam with other like-minded players is a great way to explore and have fun
 
#11
Outsider said:
Can you expand on that point?
Do you mean I must learn the movable scale pattern or must I learn how to play any note from a particular scale anywhere on the fretboard? (like Pacman's sure-fire scale practice method ?
Click to expand...
learning patterns is a tool, but ultimately the goal is to know what note you need......i suggest that you focus on the chord tones......learn them up down,and across the neck,and if you practice all the chords of a given key,the scale notes,and modes will reveal themselves....
 
#12
Popping in for a few face to face lessons with a teacher might be helpful.

Definately stick with the chord tones, the Root, 3 and 5 and then add the 7ths. I would suggest going with the diatonic chords, those are the ones naturally occurring in the key.
This is their order
maj. 7
min7
min7
maj 7
dom 7
min 7
min 7 b5

One of your books probably covers those. get really comfortable with them and then start adding the scales that match those chords, those are called your modes. Once you know the chord tones and scales then it's easier to start wandering around on the neck and connecting your chords. Definately try transcribing and learning some typical bass lines in the style you want to play. A lot of the answers you're looking for will be right there.
 
#14
As said, a teacher will be able to help you along. Another thing that will help you along is listening to a huge variety of different music. They all incorporate the information that the books and instructional videos do. Listening to a varied amount of music will help give you new ideas on how to put all the information to better use.
 
#15
Absolutely get a good teacher! Think how much you could spend on a new bass or amp - how much better would it really make you sound. For the same money you could probably get a years worth of lessons, and if you're willing to put in some regular time practicing the stuff you're taught you will find your playing is on a whole new level this time next year. Do it, you know it makes sense!
 
#16
Outsider said:
Hi

I've been playing bass for a while now, about 6 years I think and I seem to be stuck in the same place.

My style of playing is rather basic, mostly root notes with the odd 5th and/or 3rd. Sometimes I'll play an octave or head down the the 12th fret and play some high notes.

I own quite a few books:
  • Bass Guitar for Dummies - Patrick Pfieffer
  • The Complete Idiots Guide to Playing Bass Guitar - David Hodge
  • The Everything Bass Guitar Book - Eric Starr and Nelson Starr
  • Heavy Metal Techniques for Bass Guitar - Stephan Richter
  • Mel Bay's Complete Book Of Bass Essentials - Bunny Brunel
  • Bass Fitness - Josquin Des Pres
  • Learn To Play Bass Guitar - Phil Capone
  • Walking Bass Line Module System, Volume 1: Triad Modules - Todd Johnson
  • Hal Leonard Bass Method, Complete Edition - Ed Friedland
  • Building Walking Bass Lines - Ed Friedland
  • Expanding Walking Bass Lines - Ed Friedland

I've also been browsing this forum and trying to get some tips and tricks, but wherever I go I hit a dead end.
I have to admit that I haven't yet finished one of these books, I loose interest or get bored because the book is too easy or I'm don't feel as though I'm learning something I can apply or it gets to hard to quick.

I play in a church band, we mostly play Hillsong type stuff. I get given a chord sheet and play along to the chords. I'm never sure what scale we're playing in, I mostly trust the chords.

I know the key is to practice and practice, however all I'm really doing is getting more familiar with the fretboard (which isn't a bad thing) and learning other peoples riffs.

My goal for this year is to "get better at bass". I want to feel as though I've broken free of this plateau I'm stuck on and feel as though I've made an improvement.

I would like to be able to play more then the root note (and 3rd/5th) and be able to make things interesting. I've tried over and over and bought books but nothing seems to help.

May be I'm working hard enough at a book end giving up too quickly and moving on to the next book? I'm not sure.

Can anyone give some advice or pointers as to what I should do?
Click to expand...

Take advantage of a great free website:

http://www.studybass.com

Basic lessons, exercises, tools and the more basic yet practical aspects of theory.
 
#18
#19
Sometimes I feel the same way, like I hit a platau. I think "I'm using a lot of the same notes". Like you said Root, 3rds, 5ths, octaves, I use 4ths a lot, and 7ths. But then I think, "there's a reason to use those intervals, because they sound good!"

But I think it's more about finding your voice. I almost always play the note after the slash (as the root), on a slash chord. I think it creates more harmony. Or instead of starting on the root, start on the 5th and walk down to the root. Things like that to change it up.
 
#20
So I've taken some of the advice on this page. Mainly I've purchased "Edly's Music Theory for Practical People" and I've been going through Online Bass Lessons at StudyBass.com.

I haven't put much time into it, but I have learnt stuff already (mainly from Online Bass Lessons at StudyBass.com so far).

Thanks for all the advice, I'm going to keep referring back to this thread as I get stuck and try some other advice.
 

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