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Advice on church setup

wolffire99

wolffire99

Gold Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Feb 19, 2013
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Yuma
#1
Our church that I play bass for recently acquired a new to us building. It's a 600 seat sanctuary (500 floor 100 balcony) in a quarter circle shape. Big but not huge.

I've been playing through my own setup 500w amp into 2x12 cab) and it's been good. Lots of compliments.

However we're getting a new digital board and user controlled in ear monitors and it looks like they want to do DI only.

The problem is that the mains are hanging 20 feet over the front of the stage but the subs are behind a false wall behind the stage (about 35 feet behind the mains).

I'm trying to explain to them why this isn't a good setup to have the bass coming from so far back behind the mains but I don't know how to explain why. Scientifically.

It's a phase issue right?
 
#2
Hopefully the mains are beefy enough that the crossover is set to only have the subs producing frequencies that rumble more than anything. It shouldn't be a huge issue. Have you guys rehearsed or played there yet? Did the previous church have a problem with it?

I wouldn't sweat it until you give it a shot. Making huge changes that could prove to be technically difficult and expensive because something might go wrong seems a bit extreme at this point.
 
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#3
two fingers said:
Hopefully the mains are beefy enough that the crossover is set to only have the subs producing frequencies that rumble more than anything. It shouldn't be a huge issue. Have you guys rehearsed or played there yet? Did the previous church have a problem with it?

I wouldn't sweat it until you give it a shot. Making huge changes that could prove to be technically difficult and expensive because something might go wrong seems a bit extreme at this point.
Click to expand...

The crossover is set really low. The problem is the people making these decisions know nothing about sound. Someone has told them that stage volume = bad, so they want everyone to di even though the current setup with my amp has been working out great.
 
#4
My guess is if that is a pre-existing configuration in the "church" then the installers time-delayed the tops to match the subs. In the old days, they usually try to physically align tops/subs, but that's not so big a deal with current technology..
So the config may not be the biog deal you think it is..

If you can find out which vendor/model DSP is being used between console and amps (probably located in the amp rack backstage) - there WILL be one if frequencies are split between tops and subs - and find out what the crossover/delay settings are.

Plus, which brand, model and size of the tops and subs - if you can.

I go DI at church thru a sansamp, then monitor via Aviom/Behringer personal monitors (which one depends on which sanctuary I'm in that week - we have 4), using my own IEMs.
It's not really a big deal once you get used to it.
 
#5
A church digital system upgrade should also include acoustic treatment at the same time, in a boomy room. The company that installed a new system in the church I attend told the staff and administration that the new system itself will compensate for the room reverb so treatment would not be required. False. The sound is still bouncing around no matter how things are adjusted.
 
#6
My old church had an engineer come in and design the sound system. The acoustic ceiling tiles cost around $50,000. We had amps on stage which were mic'd with Shure 57s. The drums had the plexiglass cage with 8' acoustic tiles running across the back of the stage and the same type of tiles at the front of the sanctuary. Subs were about 12' behind the Mains which were Community speakers. There are places in the church where you can't tell if you are listening to a CD or live music.
 
#7
If you have IEMs, it shouldn't matter for your purposes. You should be able to hear yourself and the band just fine. The FOH is another matter - and may be out of your hands no matter what. I've voiced unsolicited opinions about the house mix at a few worship gigs I've done. And they often weren't received very well despite the fact I only did so with the best of intentions. ("Politics" seems to rear its ugly head more at church related gigs than anywhere else for some odd reason. Why is that?)

Suggestion: if you have wireless, plug in and wander around the room. It won't be an accurate test since the lack of people in the room will have an effect on the sound. But it should give you a fairly good idea as to whether there actually is a major FOH issue or not. I'd try to do that before I started advising the powers that be they may be doing it wrong.
 
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