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Double Bass Advice on loud strings for unamplified bluegrass

Clarkybass

Clarkybass

Apr 30, 2010
557
132
#1
Hi folks, I am now playing in a bluegrass/country band playing all acoustic songs. I am up against an acoustic guitar, vocals, bouzouki (or mandolin), and dobro guitar. I need a loud but not high tension set of strings to be heard in this setting, given lack of amplification.

I currently have a set of Spiro Mittels but find these hard work if I am playing anything fast, also some very low tension strings (Garbo Light EA and Chorda DG) but am not convinced these are loud enough.

So I wondered if anyone in TB world had any strong suggestions here? Maybe Velvet Blues or Zyex? Or perhaps mixing Mittel EA with lower tension DG - which would be cheapest option for me (as I have Gamut DG incoming from a trade?) Thanks in advance!
 
#3
Thanks! I plan on giving the Gamuts a go with Mittel E/A in the first instance but I am guessing a bunch of TBers have had the same question as me in the past - hence I wondered if there were any strong views here
 
#4
There will be a pretty stark tension difference between the Spiro Mitteln and the Gamuts, if you don't mind the pun! ;)

Some people really dig pairing steel with plain gut, but I never liked it myself. Aside from the tension, the strings are just too different from each other for my taste to put together. YMMV of course, and you'll never know till you try.

Joe
 
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#5
What DC said. He's quite often right about these things, but you've already tried and rejected guts over Spiros.

Blues were nice, but not loud. Same with Garbos.

Animas were loud, until they self destructed.

Guts are generally louder than you think they are from the driver's seat, but if you can't hear them intonation is a pig.

On a dark bass like yours Mittels and deep breathing may be the right medicine, or maybe downgrade to Weichs, but you'll lose a lot of punch. You'll also have to wait longer for the string to bounce back, which messes with your timing and is death in bluegrass.
 
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#7
Perhaps your Garbo lights are too light. Even the regular Garbos are rather low tension.
Naked gut can be anything from extra light to a bit higher tension. I have no experience with the Chordas if they are rather light or more heavy. Just an example: I got a medium tension high C 1.8 mm with 24.3 kg and a higher tension high-C 1.9 mm with 26.4 kg from Efrano. I also got cheap Indian gut strings 1.88 mm for a G with 16 kg tension, all on a 105 cm scale.
(The regular Efrano set has a lot less tension than the high C, but still more than the indian guts.)
The Spiros Mittel have at least 30kg of tension per string which is a lot more than even higher tension gut.

Your playing style might need some adjustments for strings that are more stretchy than steel core like gut or synthetic core strings.
Using Spiros I quickly get blisters if I dig into the string and pluck it hard, so it would be better to rather touch them rather than pluck them hard away. But for gut and synthetic core strings you might want to pull them hard, so a mix might be hard to play without getting problems, at least on a loud level.

For a loud synthetic core string either get Dominants or Velvet Compas 180 regular. I can't remember the feel of the Dominants, but the Compas are loud, could be plucked hard and are almost as loud as Spiro Mittel 4/4 (S42).

Innovation Honeys have a lot of punch, but no highs and strong lower mids. Maybe a bit hard to get the intonation right, but good for the big bass drum. Probably best for traditional jazz styles, maybe also for bluegrass. Less volume on the sustain as Dominants or Compas 180.

Maybe Innovation SuperSilvers or Ultra Blacks will do the job too, feeling a bit looser than the strings mentioned above but probably also being a bit quieter.
 
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#8
Thanks gents for chiming in with your helpful and well considered views. Much to think about. In answer to a few specific points raised, I did move on a set of Spiro Weichs and Goldentones (Kungfu Sherrif has them up for sale) but that was before I got this amp-free gig and TBH they sounded pretty damn good (Haden like) but I doubt they would be loud enough for my current circumstances; I realise there would be a tension mismatch between Spiro Mittel and naked gut, but on some threads on TB there are strong advocates of this combo and so I don't think there is anything to be lost trying this (but yeah good chance it will be too much of a mismatch); maybe I should stick with the Spiro Mittels and work on strength and endurance as they are certainly loud and authoritative; and then again there are undoubtedly strings out there with similar authority but requiring less hard work!!!!!
 
#11
The thing about urb strings is....you gotta try them all

When I first started playing bluegrass, and decided to start buying strings off here, I picked up an old beat up set of innovation rockabilly's. These strings are loud, my initial impression is they made my bass sound like a cannon.

I went on to try euro sonics and tons of other innovations, finally settling on a Anima/gut combo that I loved for years - but I always amplified a little bit.

I recently started playing in a loud post-jazzish project, and needed a different sound, so I picked up a set of blues and zyex. Can't say enough good things about the zyex - plenty of volume, easy on my hands. Haven't even string up the blues yet.

So, rockabillies and zyex are my 2c, ymmv etc.
 
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#12
On the bass I use for bluegrass, I use Spiro Mittels, and always have. I tried Lenzner gut D and G for about three days, but couldn't deal with the different feel under either left or right hand. My experience has been that the Spiros allow me to keep the action somewhat low and still have enough volume for acoustic jams if no other instruments are plugged in. Maybe a really inexperienced banjo player (one who rolls all the time) has caused a problem, but he or she causes problems for all the instruments.
 
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#13
On my old bass, Velvet Anima were really loud. My new bass is quiter, but the Velvet Blue brought out a bunch of hidden volume. When I was using gut D+G, they carried very well, but didn't always sound that way from the drivers seat because (the D in particular) is very dark. Still, I wouldn't rule them out.

Honestly, I think setup has the biggest effect. Guts and Velvets don't have that famous volume at low string height. If you want the strings low, I would suppose a tense, bright string like Spiro Mittels would probably give the most in that situation. If you try Velvet again on the E and A with your gamuts, I recommend going for the Garbo medium or Animas. They are still soft with a good output compared the the lights, which were kinda wimpy on my bass also.
 
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#14
Many thanks again gents. My bass is an old (1880s) German flat back that has been patched up a gazillion times ans is very boomy, so it does need a bit of brightness from my strings or it sounds too dark and muddy. Getting some Gamut gut D and G strings (incoming) was probably not my best thought through move given the foregoing (I have yet to find a gut D that isn't woofy and full of overtones on my bass). Right now, based on your advice, it's stick with Spiros, or get a set of Blues, Animas or Zyex. And then again .... Lol!
 
#16
I stick with Spiro Mitts and an Olive G whether amplified or not. I know the discussion is about strings, but when I play with groups such as the one you mentioned, my biggest problem is finding the right spot on stage (if there is one) to hear myself - trying to stay behind or off to the side of banjos and loud guitarists. And if they mic the vocals, staying away from any monitors.
 
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#19
I had Anima E and A with Gamut D and G on my bass for about one year. By far the most loudest set I ever played. Before I had a full set Animas. They are loud strings. But with gut on top it is even better. I play in a jazzband with drums, keys and 4 horns. I started to play acoustic and most of the time i didn't need the amp. Anyway i don't like amps .......
After a year i changed strings. Now i play Eudoxa E and A with CH Chorda D and G. Less loud, more dark, still geting used tot it. But much better with the bow. With this new set up i use a minimum of the amp and get most of the sound acousticly. Thats when playing with this jazzband, in a jazzquartet i still play acoustic.
 
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