Double Bass Advice on loud strings for unamplified bluegrass

[martinc]

Spiro Mittel E with Flexocore Deluxe A, D and G. They are capable of lots of body and power. D and G have less tension (more like Spiro Weichs) than the A and E. Easy to play. In my experience they provide a great bottom-end sound for bluegrass or other acoustic music. Fast attack too.
But I have no idea how they would sound on your bass....with your hands.
Good luck.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

Maybe the problem is, that some strings are hard to hear by the player if other instruments play with the bass. This doesn't need to be the case for the listeners.
So Clarkybass may need to specify if he needs strings that he can hear well when he plays with the ensemble or strings that sound loud off the stage to the listeners. (Or at least which of these two options is more important to him.)

I once gave an advice on a German DB forum to record the sound of the strings with one channel close to the ear of the player and the other channel about a meter in front of the bass. The guy I gave the advice wrote that he did it and to the two channels one after the other was very interesting to him and solved all the problems he thought he had.

If these recording conditions could be recreated it might be a good idea to do this with different strings (using the same manual input setting each time).

 

[misterbadger]

On my bass, Spiros don't bring nearly the power or presence of the Garbos, especially the E and A, which are forces of nature. YMMV - best to collect them all. If you don't have $1000 worth of used strings lying around, it's hard to consider yourself a real bass player. OTOH, my teacher, who definitely fits the definition, played nothing but Spiro mitts for his entire career. Go figure.

 

[Clarkybass]

If you don't have $1000 worth of used strings lying around.

Oh I have plenty. In addition to Spiro Reds (on my 3/4), I have Eurosonic/Presto Lights (bit plasticky-y), Roto RS4000 (too floppy), Garbo Light EA (bit too loose), Chorda DG (starting to fray and D is full of overtones on my bass), Jargar Dolce (thumpy but dampening makes them too quiet for acoustic use), EP Weich G (tried to pair with Spiros, diesn't match well enough to my ears), Oliv D (nice, the only gut D that has any intonation on my bass). Plus incoming Gamut DG. Will that do?

In answer to DoubleMidi, while audibility for the audience is clearly crucial this won't help me if I can't hear myself (ie, if my intonation went to sh*t I woudn't notice but they would!) The latter (hearing myself over guitar/dobro/bouzouki) is my key criterion, especially as I am a relatively newbie to DB compared to most people on this forum (only playing a few years, having played electric for most of my adult life). Thanks again all!

 

[misterbadger]

Sure. Close enough.

 

[HateyMcAmp]

Clarky- if you have the Garbo light on hand, try them with the Gamut Lyons at a high string height, think 10mm on the G. I ran that exact same setup at one point and it was a very loud, with that "old school" gut thunk and projection, without being murder on the hands. It was really an awesome bluegrass setup, although things got softer sounding/feeling when the strings got much lower than that, on my bass anyway.

 

[Sam Dingle]

I like the Garbo/gamut idea. Also try Spiro E/A oliv D and gamut G. I know some who use that type of setup

 

[DoubleMIDI]

Clarkybass, you could check out lower tension Spiros by down tuning your Mittel set by a halftone (simulating Weich) or by a wholetone (simulating downtuned solos). If you use 3/4 Spiros a 4/4 Spiro of the same category (Mittel, Weich, downtuned Solo) has less tension too. Again about the same tension as downtuning by a halftone. So you can try downtuning up to a minor third for different flavors of Spiros before putting out some money.

If you don't like the Spiro downtuned you might look for something else, probably synthetic core strings. I find the Compas 180 are almost as clear for the player as Spiros. Mounting them might be time consuming, specially on the lowest peg and if you wind the red pipe on the peg the string will break. If I wouldn't use a high C (which exists but is badly manufactured) and bow rather seldom or practice a lot with the bow I would us them myself. Powerful strings. Could be bowed but you need to get used to them, they are not very forgiving.
The Honeys are a bit hard to hear for player because of the missing highs and high mids.

In worst case you need in-ear monitoring for intonation...

 

[Eric Hochberg]

I find the Compas 180 are almost as clear for the player as Spiros. Mounting them might be time consuming, specially on the lowest peg and if you wind the red pipe on the peg the string will break.

Mounting is the same as other Velvet sets now that they come with loops at the end.

 

[J. Montgomery]

I'll play devil's advocate and turn this around, maybe the other players are too loud!

This is a bluegrass band, after all. I live at the foothills of the Blue Ridge Mountains in central Virginia; heavy-handed acoustic guitarists, banjoists, and whatever you call someone playing a mandolin are everywhere playing G, D and C chords as hard as they can, and as fast as they can.

 

[SVT4001]

I'll play devil's advocate and turn this around, maybe the other players are too loud!

This is a bluegrass band, after all. I live at the foothills of the Blue Ridge Mountains in central Virginia; heavy-handed acoustic guitarists, banjoists, and whatever you call someone playing a mandolin are everywhere playing G, D and C chords as hard as they can, and as fast as they can.

WHOAH there buddy! A BANJO player that's TOO LOUD? I've never heard of such a thing! lol!

I make my comment in jest. Your point is valid, but we discussing bass strings here, not ensemble etiquette. In a perfect world (or a good ensemble), the people we play with would extend the courtesy of making music WITH US, instead of AT US. It truly is sad how often volume gets out of control, and the fact that some people only listen to themselves, instead of the group.

You are absolutely correct though- if the bass (or any instrument for that matter) isn't loud enough, good ensemble players SHOULD bring things down to a level that lets all of the instruments be blended perfectly.

Joe

 

[Jeff Kissell]

I'd say with all the strings you have, you should be able to find the set that best matchs the tension of your bass and then work on your right hand technique. Every bass has an optimal string tension, after that it's up to you. For my Cleveland it's a gut/steel (Kaplan light) combo.

 

[Clarkybass]

I have no complaint about my band mates' volume, to be clear (no banjo player, mind you!), I was just seeking advice on strings that would cut through without huge effort. On reflection, I think Spiro Reds are just a bit too like hard work, so I will try some mix and match (as suggested above) when the Gamuts arrive. Once again, I really appreciate everyone's input here.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

Mounting is the same as other Velvet sets now that they come with loops at the end.

Which is not a good thing, since the traditional Compas 180 mounting was more flexible. Nuno told me the Classico would not have a problem winding the red pipe on the peg. I did it and ... the string broke. So I even mounted the looped Classico like the old Compas 180 to avoid that after this has happened which is a bit hard since the straps are much shorter ( I know I could open up the loop on the right side to get a few centimeters more.)

 

[J. Montgomery]

I probably should have stated that my previous comment was meant to be humorous jab at bluegrass players (given, I play in an early jazz & bluegrass "acoustic" band)

Playing a gig without an amp is really hard work.

For what its worth, I'm rockin' out on Spirocore lights.

 

[SVT4001]

I play most of my urb gigs without an amp- it can be hard work, but when you play with sensitive listeners, it's great!

 

[Eric Hochberg]

Which is not a good thing, since the traditional Compas 180 mounting was more flexible. Nuno told me the Classico would not have a problem winding the red pipe on the peg. I did it and ... the string broke.

I had no problems with the new set. The old mounting was a royal PITA, IMO.

 

[Matt Ides]

Spiros weichs seem to work well for me and most of my playing is with acoustic groups.

 

[crgaston]

I've done lots of unamplified bluegrass gigs on a 1950 Kay ( with a neck reset for better overstand) using Spiro S42's and a low action. I've got the strings set so that at the bottom of the fingerboard, if the side of my finger is touching the board, the strings are a little more than half the width of my finger above the board. This keeps me from digging in too deep and slowing down, but let's me get a full, strong pull on the string. Also keeps the left hand from working too hard. This setup was performed by Williams' Fine Violins in Nashville, and provides PLENTY of volume for me. Other bassists who are used to a higher string height or softer strings have trouble with it, but a couple of older jazz bassists who've played it love the setup.

 

[Clarkybass]

Update from me: the Gamut D and G arrived so I installed them and I love the organic sound (nicer than the Chorda!s I have). I paired with Garbo Light E and A but the E string caused a hard -to-figure-out buzz in the bridge area. Then I tried Eurosonic/Presto Light E/A and it seems a great match sonically and visually. Nice low tension. Gig tomorrow so we will find out how this set holds up in a real world situation rather than noodling at home