Advice on Powered Speakers - FRFR cabinets?

[powerplant]

My situation.
I enjoy the to play with my tone and have so far been only playing using headphones and a ZOOM b1 four pedal/box. Im currently saving up to a helix or Kemper type of box (not because I need to just for my own enjoyment). Im getting better and I want to step out of my headphone isolation. Im therefore thinking of a powered speaker or a FRFR cabinet.

What I would like:
two inputs for instruments (at least)
Aux input (not super important I can use my zoom for that)
High enough freq range so my son can join in on guitar (or I can use a keyboard)
low enough Freq range so I can use a five string
Enough volume to rehearse with a loud drummer.

I been looking at PA cabinets like:
Invalid Link Removed

but also cabinets designed for modellers from Line6 or headrush.
eg: [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Combo would be nice but separate power amp and speaker cabinet is also OK.

Note: Im not a gigging or recording musician. I do this for fun but I hava good day job and want to use good sounding gear. Im looking in the 500€/$ range but if it is good stuff I can go higher. Absolutely max is 1000.

 

[Balog]

The QSC K12.2 is pretty well regarded and has a "bass amp" preset. Most reputable powered PA speakers would probably do ok for your described use case.

 

[powerplant]

OK QsC looks high end and high quality (w 6 years warranty - l like) and range nearly down to 45.
thanks fore tip I get a new for 950 euro here.

thanks

Any that play using a similar setup?

 

[Pat C.]

My situation.
I enjoy the to play with my tone and have so far been only playing using headphones and a ZOOM b1 four pedal/box. Im currently saving up to a helix or Kemper type of box (not because I need to just for my own enjoyment). Im getting better and I want to step out of my headphone isolation. Im therefore thinking of a powered speaker or a FRFR cabinet.

What I would like:
two inputs for instruments (at least)
Aux input (not super important I can use my zoom for that)
High enough freq range so my son can join in on guitar (or I can use a keyboard)
low enough Freq range so I can use a five string
Enough volume to rehearse with a loud drummer.

I been looking at PA cabinets like:
Invalid Link Removed

but also cabinets designed for modellers from Line6 or headrush.
eg: [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Combo would be nice but separate power amp and speaker cabinet is also OK.

Note: Im not a gigging or recording musician. I do this for fun but I hava good day job and want to use good sounding gear. Im looking in the 500€/$ range but if it is good stuff I can go higher. Absolutely max is 1000.

You ask for two instrument inputs, but there may not be that many options that actually have two instrument-level inputs, typically they are mic or line level. Meaning that you will have to use a DI box between each instrument and the speaker, or be using a preamp with enough output to drive the input of the powered speaker (The Zoom B1 four might do it fine).

PA speakers are not voiced like most bass guitar speakers so while they will 'reproduce' all the notes you're not going to get a strong fundamental, and in many cases even the 2nd harmonic of the lowest notes will be weak. Generally speaking a bigger woofer and cabinet will go lower, but that can depend on specific design as well. These type of 2-way tops are usually designed for vocal and treble instrument reproduction and intended to be used with subs for full range reinforcement.

The FRFR models are simply PA cabinets marketed as 'FRFR' guitar cabinets, there's nothing special about them. The Headrush is essentially an Alto TS.

Personally I'd stay away from JBL Eons.

In the sub 1000 price point I'd be looking at Yamaha DXR, QSC K2.x, RCF Art 7xx or HD, and models by FBT and DB Technologies.

 

[powerplant]

thanks for the advice.
Some of these are indeed quite expensive but I find some used as well for much less.
I found a very nice looking QSC K10.2 nearby. Anyone have experience with this?
It has 50-200k range rater than 45-200 for the K12.2.

 

[Papuzzo]

I used FRFR when I played guitar and wanted to continue with bass, but it's just not practical when you can get a decent combo amp for half the price that will sound twice, if not more, better. You can get a decent used head+cab used for less than a good FRFR speaker.

 

[sspear]

I have thought about doing the same thing. The Headrush or Alto with a Sansamp pedal or a Zoom would do the trick.. it would work for a worship service but would it be loud enough for a regular gig?

 

[Selta]

I use QSC K12 with my Axe-Fx II and/or AX8 setups. I play primarily in metal bands - one is pretty well on the path towards IEMs, and the other is actually pretty decent about stage volume. I have no issues in either band using the K12 alone. It sits on the floor, pointing up at me. Usually pointing across whatever stage, which helps with others hearing me as well. It sounds great for guitar, bass, violin, and keys -- all instruments I or my wife play and have used it for.

The K12.2 is even better - I contemplate selling my 12 and getting a 12.2, but with both main projects moving towards IEMs, it's less and less needed.

 

[Bassdirty]

OK QsC looks high end and high quality (w 6 years warranty - l like) and range nearly down to 45.
thanks fore tip I get a new for 950 euro here.
thanks
Any that play using a similar setup?

If you check out the "effects threads", and search for ZOOM pedals, (specifically Zoom B3 I am sure of, as I read the entire thread) you will see TONS of suggestions from folks that run w/ powered speaker instead of bass amp. Only problem is the threads are great but LONG. Very good info there.
Lots of great tips for running a Zoom through any setup you can think of, actually..from folks that did it/do it.

YMMV

T$

 

[Omega Monkey]

Unless you're set on "playing with your tone" in the area where modeling is least flexible and most fake sounding (ie cab emulation), you should just skip all the "FRFR" nonsense (as a soundguy and audiophile I will tell you there are literally no particularly good ones on the market right now for any reasonable price), and just get a conventional bass cab you like the sound of. If you get the kemper, you'll still get "the sound" (or as close as you can actually get with modeling) of the modeled amp, it will just be what it sounds like through that particular cab. If you get a nice BASS cab that just happens to be reasonably neutral sounding, your playing experience is going to be SO much better than what all the modeling jockeys try to pretend they get out of the modeled pre through modeled power amp and modeled effects into modeled cab into REAL cab but made from mediocre chinese drivers designed to be sold to weekend DJs and country bar bands. Trust me on this. And there are a zillion and one great sounding bass cabs out there for not a ton of money, ESPECIALLY if you never gig and thus don't need to move it.

In the states I would say find some nice and cheap SWR cab, but since you're in the EU, you might find a nice Trace or something like that. Or if you could get a GK NEO 212 that would be perfect. Not a completely insane size, but enough to have fun with at home. Great sounding, malleable, lightweight, easily resellable if you end up wanting something different. And well within your budget.

But I cannot stress enough, EVERYONE these days is WAY overestimating how good they actually sound when they try to fabricate every aspect of their sound and don't leave anything in the physical realm other than going into a cheap PA cab. So every layer you bring back to reality (with using a real bass cab being the most important one), the better you will sound.

And if you want some FRFR type experience to play around with cab emulation too, either keep using headphones, or get a pair of studio monitors. You should be able to get a pair of KRK Rokit 6s or JBL LSRs and a GK NEO 212 for within your budget or close, I would guess a lot less on the used market.

 

[mikewalker]

https://www.electrovoice.com/produc...id[]=197&title=Portable Powered Speakers

 

[Papuzzo]

But I cannot stress enough, EVERYONE these days is WAY overestimating how good they actually sound when they try to fabricate every aspect of their sound and don't leave anything in the physical realm other than going into a cheap PA cab. So every layer you bring back to reality (with using a real bass cab being the most important one), the better you will sound.

+1.

The truth is, this approach does work reasonable well for guitarists and stuff like the Kemper or Axe FX do a good job of getting close to good guitar tone for a fraction of the cost of the real gear, and sounds good at any volume, especially low volumes. But there is something missing when it comes to getting good thumping bass tone out of PA speakers. My advice would be if you just don't want a real bass amp to pass directly to In Ear Monitoring after some signal processor. It will eventually become the norm in the future anyway. Someone once predicted that even concerts will be noiseless and all the public will use ear buds.

 

[Zbysek]

My advice would be if you just don't want a real bass amp to pass directly to In Ear Monitoring after some signal processor.

The OP said he wants to "step out of his headphones isolation"...

 

[Samatza]

I so wanted to do the same thing and really liked the Bag End powered cabs but alas given the exchange rate at the moment and shipping costs it's way beyond my budget.

PA style speakers can work but they're not quite the same as bass cabs for some reason. I mean at the end of it if you're going through FOH you're coming out of a PA speaker but for on stage it's still different. Maybe someone here who has used both types can explain it in more detail.

 

[powerplant]

thanks a lot for the comments and different suggestions. I m testing a few different alternatives but your suggestions open up for many different things. I guess bess bass sound you get form a bass cab butnas I am fiddling around with different bass sounds and instruments and would like to have the backing musik through the same cab I possibly have to be satisfied with a worse bass tone.

 

[Chickenwheels]

These days I'm thinking that the only thing you should plug into a PA speaker is a microphone. Then point that microphone at your voice/drum kit/guitar amp/bassamp. Even DI'ing is pretty dodgy with bass.

 

[Wasnex]

thanks a lot for the comments and different suggestions. I m testing a few different alternatives but your suggestions open up for many different things. I guess bess bass sound you get form a bass cab butnas I am fiddling around with different bass sounds and instruments and would like to have the backing musik through the same cab I possibly have to be satisfied with a worse bass tone.

IMHO you need to form your own opinion on this. I do agree that most cabs marketed as FRFR are intended for guitar and will not have the headroom or low frequency extension for bass modeling. But I am not a fan of traditional bass speakers, and you may not be either.

I have been very happy using rigs that were approaching FRFR for bass. I have used a couple of biamp rigs with PA cabs to produce smooth mids and extended highs, and I was quite happy with the results. I turn the EQ knobs to taste, so I wouldn't say the resultant sound was flat, but it started pretty close to flat.

My current speakers are 3-ways with a 12", two 8", and a horn. They are perfectly not flat, but they are definitely full range.

These are Genz Benz 1288Ts. They are a bit warm in the low end, but I think something like them would work pretty well with a modelling rig. I bought them all used and the average price was $500 delivered.

When I was in Germany in the 90s I had a pair of Zeck 3-way cabs that sounded great with an old Trace Elliot AH350. I believe each cab had a 15", 6", and a horn.

I believe there are lot's of people in Germany who could make you a nice speaker that would work really well for modelling. Something similar to a fEARful 15/6 would probably be ideal. Your choice if you want to add the horn and make it a 15/6/1, but it's probably not necessary.

 

[Stinga1990]

The Yamaha DXR15 is what you want. That thing brings the thump. Scary loud, detailed, and deep for a powered Pa 15 top. Even with 5 string you will be able to hang with a hard hitting drummer. It moves a lot of air for what it is and doesn't feel like playing a pa speaker.

 

[powerplant]

I been looking into the QSC k12.2 and the Yamaha DXR15 but can just not stan the looks
they really don look like what I expect from speakers. Have anyone tried the Laney LFR-212? it is a closed cab but at leas look like an amp and all tough the controls are on the back I would not have to sit down to change volume.

Laney Amplification - Since 1967

 

[Stinga1990]

I been looking into the QSC k12.2 and the Yamaha DXR15 but can just not stan the looks
they really don look like what I expect from speakers. Have anyone tried the Laney LFR-212? it is a closed cab but at leas look like an amp and all tough the controls are on the back I would not have to sit down to change volume.

Laney Amplification - Since 1967

Bah, my Yamaha DXR15 looks slick to me. Everytime I pick it up I can feel the quality. To my ears this is the best powered pa monitor for bass. Standing next to it, or away from it, it's like playing an actual bass rig. It's the feel in the room as the notes thump that the Yamaha gets right, and I'm pretty sure the actual physical cab is part of the magic, low end pours from the Yamaha like no other pa speaker I tried, including QSC. I definitely wouldn't expect a Laney product to do it. Yamaha has a 7 year warranty and is built like a tank. I play 5 string bass in loud heavy rock (one band had a heavy hitter) and not one complaint or negative comment about a farting low b or muddy or harsh sound. Nothing but compliments.