Advice on Tube DI

[NocoLaw]

My main gigging band work calls for clean and simple (I have another project that gets a little wilder and more experimental). If I have roadies and space, I love the V4B and SVT 212. When I am ampless, I run Tuner/Keeley Bassist/VT Bass/Countryman DI. I’m looking to warm and fatten up, especially the higher end, with gooey tubiness - not looking for breakup and distortion. So, I’m thinking of a Noble or REDDI, or something along those lines. I have searched here, and this is the most logical approach I have come up with, but not having owned a tube DI, I wanted to make sure that I’m not misunderstanding their purpose or affect on tone before I start looking at dropping $1,000-2,000, and I don’t know of any place I could demo.

I understand that a lot of people feel like that is too much money to spend for what I’m looking to do, and that’s cool; but it is worth it to me, if it is reasonable to expect to get what I’m looking for. For purposes of this thread, please assume it is coming to me as a gift and cost is immaterial.

If it matters, I primarily play either a Fender American Pro II Jazz V or a Music Man StingRay Classic 5. I have seen that some tube DIs handle active basses better than others, but I also understand that the StingRay Classic doesn’t have the output of the really hot active basses.

 

[Wasnex]

My main gigging band work calls for clean and simple (I have another project that gets a little wilder and more experimental). If I have roadies and space, I love the V4B and SVT 212. When I am ampless, I run Tuner/Keeley Bassist/VT Bass/Countryman DI. I’m looking to warm and fatten up, especially the higher end, with gooey tubiness - not looking for breakup and distortion. So, I’m thinking of a Noble or REDDI, or something along those lines. I have searched here, and this is the most logical approach I have come up with, but not having owned a tube DI, I wanted to make sure that I’m not misunderstanding their purpose or affect on tone before I start looking at dropping $1,000-2,000, and I don’t know of any place I could demo.

I understand that a lot of people feel like that is too much money to spend for what I’m looking to do, and that’s cool; but it is worth it to me, if it is reasonable to expect to get what I’m looking for. For purposes of this thread, please assume it is coming to me as a gift and cost is immaterial.

If it matters, I primarily play either a Fender American Pro II Jazz V or a Music Man StingRay Classic 5. I have seen that some tube DIs handle active basses better than others, but I also understand that the StingRay Classic doesn’t have the output of the really hot active basses.

Don't have any first hand experience, but my perception is the Ampeg crowd loves the REDDI. I am sure @JimmyM will be happy to comment and perhaps tag other users he is aware off.

You might also consider something like a Barber Linden EQ plugged into your regular Countryman.

My personal feeling is a REDDI is pricey given its fairly subtle impact on the tone. That doesn't mean you shouldn't get one, but I would would go with some sort of Preamp/DI if I was running ampless and using IEMs.

Here's a fairly long thread you can wade through: Do I even need a Reddi?

 

[Geri O]

I had a REDDI DI and loved it, but I needed something that would fit in a backpack. So I went with a Khan VTDI. It sounds as good as the REDDI, it’s $700 new, and it’s just slightly bigger than a RNDI, Radial, or Countryman.

It would be wise to try a tube DI to see if it treats your bass tone the way you want. I did and I do. And I can’t see paying Noble money for what the Khan does so well.

 

[J-Bass RMR]

The Noble seems to be one of the top choices.
Sushi Finally is often rated right up there as well.

I had the Finally & have a Sushi-Built Noble clone & Neptunium, so I held off on the Noble, and then ended up using the Capo for the past 6 months - so not much help there!

Not all are tube DIs in this video - but may still be useful:

 

[WillKrauseBass]

I have both, I play mainly Fender- for my passive Fenders I thought the noble sounded better and for my warwicks and active fenders instruments i preferred the REDDI (on a lower setting).
They both definitely make the tone fatter, and they both have a wider range of tone than you would think. (The REDDI isn't super flexible, but you can think of the volume knob like a gain knob in terms of tone) If you're specifically wanting to fatten the high end I would say the Noble. But with some patience you can get a REDDI used for $500/$600 you might want to see if that does it for you first, and it should be easy to flip if you go for the Noble.

Sidenote, I had the REDDI first, and the first time I ever used it live was at SXSW- I guess the soundguy was kind of inexperienced and wasn't ready for it, and the DI bass was ENORMOUS. We obviously had to dial that in, but it was pretty cool I had not experienced it up until then.

 

[denton57]

A Finally is a a very cost effective option to get a tube DI. I run a cali and Linden into it and it works for me on my little board

 

[Eidolon0274]

I played through a Reddi with IEM setup most of the summer. I ended up buying a VT bass last month and keeping the Reddi at home.

The reddi did sound nice and warm, but its size and lack of EQ and grind control didnt work for me.

Told my sound guy to reset the board to flat with no amp sim, the VT bass lets me dial in my own tone/gain/EQ and cab sim without worrying what I get from the board.

I think the Reddi works better as a home studio thing, too many variables live and I like to be able to turn around and adjust my EQ and presence in the mix on the fly. I also like that the VT bass can run on phantom power.

If you were sitting in a quiet studio and A/B comparing DIs you would hear some difference, specially if you were coming out of studio monitors, but for live applications you'd be hard pressed to notice the difference with tube, and much more likely to notice that you cant "fix" your sound or levels in a bad situation with the Reddis one knob

 

[el murdoque]

I'd like to point your attention to an unlikely candidate: The Effectrode LA-1A.
It's a tube comp, but it has a balanced output that easily rivals that of the $1000 boxes. Zero noise, heaps of goodness.
The sound might be what could be a problem. You get the characteristic tube warmth and all the good stuff, but the top end is well rounded. When I play dirt into the LA-1A, I have to run higher gain, because some of the sizzle gets swallowed. Nonetheless, it's a great "Last in Chain, bringing the good stuff" device for a very fair price.

Here's the main thing about the Noble.
It's just a simple tube box. No gain (no dirt!), just a 2 band EQ and that is boost only.
Order yours today and receive it two months after the project you wanted to use it on has disbanded.

But.

Owners of the Noble tell you how your sound enters the third dimension, gets sculptural, vivid, receiving a depth you've never heard.
Take these weird ramblings and try to believe them - it's hard. Until you unpack your parcel from Jack, hook up your Noble and pluck the first note. Then you go "Aaaah! That's what they meant" while a thin trickle of drool exits the corner of your mouth.

 

[bucephylus]

There are many possible answers.

There are strictly tube driven DI boxes, such as REDDI, Khan, Demeter etc.

There are tube driven preamp / DI’s, such as Noble, Sushi Box, Shift Line, Arkham etc.

Were that not enough, there are a variety of tube driven amp heads with DI’s, which are small enough and can function without cabs, such as Mesa, GK, Demeter etc.

Furthermore, as we go from one gig to the next, the signal chain needs keep changing. We need to feed signal to either / or a backline amp and / or a monitor, as well as the FoH. One thing that has settled down somewhat is that the audience more commonly hears whatever bass signal chain is happening through FoH, with the backline amp and / or monitor primarily providing stage mix.

It’s enough to drive a bass player insane; or at least lead to a prolonged case of GAS and gear flip. What to do?

I finally decided that my main source of irritation was sending different signal chains to the stage mix and FoH. IMHO, if you are trying to establish a specific “sound,” it just can’t be right to use different gear for those two signal chains. Yes, Sound Engineers will have some influence on your sound at the board. But, my experience is that 9 times out of 10, they are mainly preoccupied with clearly presenting whatever the player is sending them.

For the moment, I’ve assembled the following board as a solution to this dual signal chain dichotomy:

In order, I use the Sadowsky preamp, either in active mode with my passive instruments, or with the EQ flat as a leveler for active basses; followed by the Sushi Box More to inject tube depth; followed by not one, but two BDDI V1 output boxes, with one feeding the FoH, the other feeding either / or the backline power amp and / or powered stage monitor. The BDDI box has several useful aspects; among them, some element of SVT emulation and switchable Line / mic level outputs. The use of the pair of them is to achieve independent volume control on the board for what is being sent to FoH and stage gear. There is an HPF for the signal going to the stage gear.

This may all be a bit excessive; but, at least, I am sending pretty much the same thing to each destination. The sound is pretty much my pref. So, perhaps, I can get back to concentrating on playing; for the time being, until the next issue.

 

[FronTowardEnemy]

Save yourself some money and get a SushiBox finally. V3

I’ve been using one for all my gigs weather IEM or not.

It just works.

 

[bherman]

I tried many and was happiest with the Arkham Oracle. But my new best solution is the Mesa Subway 800D amp that just came out, has a tube pre and an 800 watt power section. I have done a few gigs with it (blues, rock, R&B) where I typically would use pedals and/or preamp and used the amp just by itself and it sounds just perfect. So I am now pedal-free except for tuner, and a few effects pedals (chorus, octave) needed for a few songs with a different band.

 

[NocoLaw]

Thanks all! Great help - exactly the kind of direction I was hoping to get. I am buying the Sushi Box Finally a fellow TBer, and will start the hunt for some of the other suggestions and the gear swapping. I don’t really mind it - I admit that messing with gear and trying different things keeps me from getting stuck in a rut.

As far as different signals, I know people prefer that; but I have never wanted to hear something other than what I sounded like to the audience - my mix preference is the out front with me boosted just a little. That gives me the security of hearing myself and confirming that I’m where I want to be, but I can adjust my sound as needed. I don’t get how you make good changes based on what you hear on stage, if it’s not what you sound like out front. Lots of way better players than me do it; so, maybe I’m just too simple to get it!

 

[pbass2]

I had a REDDI. Certainly did what it says on the tin. Lately I've been doing sessions at a studio that has a few of these: TONECRAFT AUDIO
Sounds great on everything I've run through it and we don't even engage the EQ--P w flats, five string Jazz, MFD'd G&L, etc.
About as much of a hassle to schlepp around as a REDDI if you're gonna use it live. That's why I stopped using my REDDI for regular gigs, just too big a form factor for that purpose. I just use whatever stomp I'm currently into for tubey-ness, into a JDI. If it's a bigger tour situation I'd use whatever was feasible (but honestly I think the subtleties of a lot of this stuff don't make that big a difference live, so I still err on keeping it stealthy even if I have a roadie).

 

[JazznFunk]

Another vote here for the small but mighty SushiBox FINALLY. It's become my default DI for most studio work at home. I do have a Radial FireFly DI that I use in some instances, but the SushiBox is always plugged in and ready to go.

 

[NorthTexasBass]

I have been thrilled with my Two Notes ReVolt. The clean channel is based on an Ampeg and it is very thick with tubey goodness. The vintage dirt channel is awesome for when you want just a little edge of breakup as well.

 

[s0c9]

Another Khan VTDI user here - he was the original designer of the (discontinued) Ampeg SVT-DI.
It’s about half the price of the Noble and I received it 3 days later - unlike the 14-month wait (at the time) for the Noble.
Sits on my pedalboard.
Tuner -> Cali76 (and/or switchable JHS Punchline) -> Khan -> PA.
There’s plenty of choices out there.

I’d recommend doing some research on each, as they all have their pros + cons.

 

[Wasnex]

Thanks all! Great help - exactly the kind of direction I was hoping to get. I am buying the Sushi Box Finally a fellow TBer, and will start the hunt for some of the other suggestions and the gear swapping. I don’t really mind it - I admit that messing with gear and trying different things keeps me from getting stuck in a rut.

As far as different signals, I know people prefer that; but I have never wanted to hear something other than what I sounded like to the audience - my mix preference is the out front with me boosted just a little. That gives me the security of hearing myself and confirming that I’m where I want to be, but I can adjust my sound as needed. I don’t get how you make good changes based on what you hear on stage, if it’s not what you sound like out front. Lots of way better players than me do it; so, maybe I’m just too simple to get it!

Sorry but it really doesn't work this way. Sound needs to be processed discretely for different listening locations and listening purposes. What you need to hear on stage to play well is not the same as what is needed for the bass to sit properly in the house mix. The way you perceive your tone is different when you are playing versus listening. Also the acoustics in the room are a very big factor, especially compared to IEMs which isolate your sound from the acoustic environment. The IEMs will sound different than the PA cabs. Even if both are considered flat, they won't sound the exactly same.

If you want to know what the bass sounds like to the audience. Either record the bass or get a looper. Play the loop and go out to the sound console and take a listen. However, keep in mind the tone we like when playing solo typically does not work well in a mix. So to really hear what you sound like playing with the band, you need a recording of the entire band. I believe some mixers can capture each channel, so it's possible.

Lastly music changes continuously. IME it's pretty rare for the audio to simply sit back and listen for extended periods of time. Usually the audio tech will need to constantly dial things in as the music changes.

So my advice: Worry about how you sound in the IEMs. Also, hire an audio tech you trust who understands the bands sound concept and let him/her do their job. I.E. get out the way.

 

[G-Viking]

Another vote for the Sushi Box Finally V3. I received mine about a month ago, and I love it. It is a simple, cost effective way to get that amazing sound of authentic tube saturation.

 

[SLO Surfer]

And I can’t see paying Noble money for what the Khan does so well.

I owned a Kahn and Noble for a few years, going back and forth between the two. I loved both but finally decided to sell the Kahn last month because the Noble just sounded better and had some tone shaping capabilities… but mostly because it just sounded better to me. I’m in the same boat as this OP where price doesn’t matter, so cost difference didn’t factor into my decision in choosing the Noble over the Kahn, just sound and functionality.

 

[Carl Hillman]

It seems like overkill to me, as the sound on most live gigs is suboptimal. Half the time you're lucky to hear yourself and the rest of the band in a decent balance while fighting any issues from room/stage acoustics. But, you didn't ask about that.

I don't know if Sonic Farm allows a "try before you buy", but I sure liked the way this sounded when I got to mess around with it at home.

Sonic Farm Pro Audio | Creamer Pentode Preamp | 2di4 Pentode Direct Box | 2DI4 Pentode Direct Box