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Advice on Tube DI

#23
NocoLaw said:
I’m looking to warm and fatten up, especially the higher end, with gooey tubiness - not looking for breakup and distortion.
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Just to get some more clarity - what is it that your VT bass isn't giving you regarding the higher frequencies?

I felt that the VT bass adds a good amount of warmth and girth to the bass tone.


I have:

Sushibox Finally and Neptunium
Sansamp: BDDI, Paradriver, VT bass Deluxe, Q strip, Bass Fly rig V1
Origin Effects - Super Vintage
Joyo American Sound
Spark boost - 4 knob version

I'm probably forgetting one or two others.

It's fun to try out different pre amps and tube DIs, but honestly, for gigging and live music, I feel like a lot of subtlety gets lost. For me, the higher end preamps make more sense for recording or for headphone practice.

Once we are moving air and playing live, the small differences in tone are kind of overwhelmed by the overall sound of my amp and cab, and the sonic interactions from the drums and guitar.

It is nice to have a great live sound though. Unfortunately, in the end I feel like we are at the mercy of the person running sound and their equipment and their biases about bass tone.
 
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#25
Wasnex said:
Sorry but it really doesn't work this way. Sound needs to be processed discretely for different listening locations and listening purposes. What you need to hear on stage to play well is not the same as what is needed for the bass to sit properly in the house mix. The way you perceive your tone is different when you are playing versus listening. Also the acoustics in the room are a very big factor, especially compared to IEMs which isolate your sound from the acoustic environment. The IEMs will sound different than the PA cabs. Even if both are considered flat, they won't sound the exactly same.

If you want to know what the bass sounds like to the audience. Either record the bass or get a looper. Play the loop and go out to the sound console and take a listen. However, keep in mind the tone we like when playing solo typically does not work well in a mix. So to really hear what you sound like playing with the band, you need a recording of the entire band. I believe some mixers can capture each channel, so it's possible.

Lastly music changes continuously. IME it's pretty rare for the audio to simply sit back and listen for extended periods of time. Usually the audio tech will need to constantly dial things in as the music changes.

So my advice: Worry about how you sound in the IEMs. Also, hire an audio tech you trust who understands the bands sound concept and let him/her do their job. I.E. get out the way.
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I’m talking about pre vs post effects. I don’t mean my IEMs or stage monitor could or should ever sound the same as any particular location in the room. Sorry I was not clear there.
 
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#26
shirojiro said:
Just to get some more clarity - what is it that your VT bass isn't giving you regarding the higher frequencies?

I felt that the VT bass adds a good amount of warmth and girth to the bass tone.


I have:

Sushibox Finally and Neptunium
Sansamp: BDDI, Paradriver, VT bass Deluxe, Q strip, Bass Fly rig V1
Origin Effects - Super Vintage
Joyo American Sound
Spark boost - 4 knob version

I'm probably forgetting one or two others.

It's fun to try out different pre amps and tube DIs, but honestly, for gigging and live music, I feel like a lot of subtlety gets lost. For me, the higher end preamps make more sense for recording or for headphone practice.

Once we are moving air and playing live, the small differences in tone are kind of overwhelmed by the overall sound of my amp and cab, and the sonic interactions from the drums and guitar.

It is nice to have a great live sound though. Unfortunately, in the end I feel like we are at the mercy of the person running sound and their equipment and their biases about bass tone.
Click to expand...
As far as what I want, more warmth and tube fatness - I like the sound of the V4B a lot more than the VT Bass, and thought a real tube pre might get closer than the simulator does. I know it won’t be the same, but hoped for closer.

For the comments about overkill and our sound not mattering live; I totally get that it’s not worth it to plenty of people and in plenty of situations. We record, and while I don’t think many audience members could put their finger on what they like and don’t like about my sound specifically, we play a good number of “listening venues,” where people are seated and intently listening to and engaging with us. And even if nobody noticed my sound (which is not the case), it matters to me.
 
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#27
DIs, and especially tube DIs, are difficult to recommend because they don’t sound alike, and so one player will prefer one, while another is likely to favor a different one. I had a Reddi for a while. It really does sound quite a bit like an old Ampeg B-15, and for some folks that’s as good as it gets. But it’s not tonally versatile at all, and I’m not a B-15 guy, so I sold the Reddi. I replaced it at first with a Sonic Farm 2DI4. It’s wonderful and versatile but, like the Reddi, it’s pretty big - about the size of a 750ml wine bottle in a gift box. Too unwieldy for bar band work. These days I am using and highly recommend the Sushi Box Finally. It’s 1/4 the size and weight of those others, and 1/3 the cost. Sounds fantastic! Right in front of the Finally I use one of 2 Sushi Box tube preamps - either the Underground Accelerator (with its Fender/Alembic tone stack) or the Elementary (which is based on the HiWatt DR-103). Tube tone for days! Don’t sleep on the Sushi Box stuff!
 
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#32
Alban said:
I am really surprised that people didn’t mention the Arkham Oracle, which would blow away most of the competition mentioned here.
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That's a matter of opine as are most comments on this thread. Buy/use what works for you and your situation. There's no "blow away the competition"
with any tube DI.
 
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#33
s0c9 said:
That's a matter of opine as are most comments on this thread. Buy/use what works for you and your situation. There's no "blow away the competition"
with any tube DI.
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Of course it is a matter of opinion. But when you compare several features of the aforementioned products, like price, versatility, “tubeness”, build quality, et cetera, then it’s not hard to get to some kind of favourites list. That’s how these forums work. The Arkham has always been very popular here, so I found it interesting that no one brought it up before.
 
#34
Echoing what @s_wood posted above, every tube (or transistor for that matter) DI will sound different. Some tube di's are fat & warm, some are clear and uncolored. Same is true for a good solid state device.

Since you seem to have a 'sound in your head', I think it would be smart to find a way to audition a hsndful of units to see what you like!

Honestly, for "fat and warm" I would consider a di with a preamp. A Noble definitely will get you there, but so will an Aguilar ToneHammer di. There are so many options....

All of that said, a less "hip" unit that I find to be particularly 'fat and warm' is my Groove Tubes Brick. Not made anymore, gigantic, and not the flavor of the month- but it's still a studio staple for me.
 
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#37
Alban said:
Of course it is a matter of opinion. But when you compare several features of the aforementioned products, like price, versatility, “tubeness”, build quality, et cetera, then it’s not hard to get to some kind of favourites list. That’s how these forums work. The Arkham has always been very popular here, so I found it interesting that no one brought it up before.
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It was mentioned further up the thread - #11 on page 1 - I believe. <shrug>
 
#38
scotch said:
Honestly, for "fat and warm" I would consider a di with a preamp. A
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This! Using a tube pre in front of a tube DI gives you lots of flexibility to shape your tone as you like. There are so many flavors of tone available with the many available tube pres, and no doubt you will find one to your liking.

And in the “fat and warm” category I have to also recommend the Avalon U5. A wonderful warm and fat sound all its own.
 
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#39
shirojiro said:
Just to get some more clarity - what is it that your VT bass isn't giving you regarding the higher frequencies?

I felt that the VT bass adds a good amount of warmth and girth to the bass tone.
Click to expand...
Chiming in as someone who owned several VT Bass pedals on and off over the last 15 years or so:

I loved the VT Bass for what it did: emulating the sound of Ampeg amps to a scary degree. What I didn't like was that even with the speaker sim off, that's the tone you had.... take or leave it. It's GREAT, but not perfect for every situation, which is why I ended up going to an EBS ValveDrive has my tube preamp for my live rig. Now, I use the SushiBox MORE as my 'tube warmer' for my live rig. It might also be something to check out if you don't actually need a tube DI. It does true 'warmth and girth' without any additional fuss or frills, and works well with pretty much any rig or setup. I also use one in front of my FINALLY in the studio, and have one mounted on my pedalboard to warm up that chain.
 
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#40
For those who have tried them, would going all tube - say a tube compressor (if I’m going to keep using one), tube preamp, maybe the Sushi Box More, and then the tube DI (wherever I land) - give a more full tube sound? I haven’t tried anything like that and thought I would likely keep the Keeley and the VT Bass and switch the Countryman DI for a tube DI; but looking at the Sushi Box gear, it looks like I could replace everything I use, except the tuner, with a tube pedal. That’s the idea I get from some of the comments (like the tube preamp in front, More, etc.); I just wondered if there is a max efficacy with this fly rig approach.
 
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