Double Bass Afterlength muting, the H clamp, and further proof that Einstein wasn't born in KY

[Marc Piane]

Just curious Larry. How do you mount it? Or do you just put it on a stand?

 

[M Ramsey]

Back to the Dennis Crouch/SM 58 situation, he had the mic on a short floor stand about 10"-12" in front of the treble F hole. Far enough away to get away from the plosives but close enough to get the tone.

 

[Marc Piane]

That pretty much what I do with a beta 52. I'll have to do some testing with a SM 58. Thanks.

 

[larry]

Just curious Larry. How do you mount it? Or do you just put it on a stand?

I use a short stand. I really like it that way - it lets me work the mic (especially good for switching between arco & pizz). I point the mic at the tip of the bridge.

 

[Tom Baldwin]

Tell mr. cringe that the Volkwagen works and it's $100. His mike is $300+ and is the size of corrective shoe. I don't doubt that mic is just the thing for Tony Bennett's band at 6 figures a night but for Joe Jazzbrunch in Whackville Indiana working for $100 and tips looking to add a bit of "air" to his cheasy pickup sound it may be the china cheapy works just fine. Poor schmuck works 6 weeks of buffets for the corrective shoe and it's bracket that looks like an orbiting moon lander strapped to the bass and just one for the Volkswagen jackhammer thats stuck between the strings. So if the jackhammer works than why should he wait around for some smartass engineer to come up with some miniature version of the holy grail corrective shoe. If Tony Bennett's band used an SM57 they SHOULD fire the soundman. If Joe Jazzbrunch gets a nice sound with a cheap mic more power to him.



...sorry his thinking is correct but his perspective is annoying me at 5am with a child that won't sleep.

I'm looking forward to his $300+ mini corrective shoe myself.

You do have a way with words, at A.M. no less. Only problem is that sometimes even a bill for the Jazzbrunch is optimistic! And God forbid the musicians should want to eat...

The other point about the 120kz rolloff point is that many of us who use mics for live sound are blending with a pup, and in my case the pup covers the low end while the mic adds the detail on the high end. Especially appropriate with a no-highs pup like the Realist (again, IME). Now if this new Stubby can eliminate the need for the pup by reproducing the lows without boominess, we might be onto something. I'll be following this with interest!

 

[flatback]

Dang,
I didn't mean to upset you'se guys. I just reprinted it cause it sounded interesting. Bob really digs the mic and feels strongly about what he has come up with. I don't think he meant to be insulting just throwing into contrast his contribution. I thought it might prompt the 'what gets picked up' discussion and the whole blending thing. Anyway without the invective it HAS been my experience that the PR 40 has these qualities. I did find it however by getting into the SM57 and cheap dynamics in general which add (even without Hi Fi) that air and puff that feels right and sounds like you want it too (mostly...)

 

[flatback]

Tell mr. cringe that the Volkwagen works and it's $100. His mike is $300+ and is the size of corrective shoe. I don't doubt that mic is just the thing for Tony Bennett's band at 6 figures a night but for Joe Jazzbrunch in Whackville Indiana working for $100 and tips looking to add a bit of "air" to his cheasy pickup sound it may be the china cheapy works just fine. Poor schmuck works 6 weeks of buffets for the corrective shoe and it's bracket that looks like an orbiting moon lander strapped to the bass and just one for the Volkswagen jackhammer thats stuck between the strings. So if the jackhammer works than why should he wait around for some smartass engineer to come up with some miniature version of the holy grail corrective shoe. If Tony Bennett's band used an SM57 they SHOULD fire the soundman. If Joe Jazzbrunch gets a nice sound with a cheap mic more power to him.



...sorry his thinking is correct but his perspective is annoying me at 5am with a child that won't sleep.

I'm looking forward to his $300+ mini corrective shoe myself.

uncle you're a funny guy....BTW I've been driving to gigs in a VW bug lately...

 

[Ric Vice]

I'm really wating for the Stubby. I talked to Bob Heil and he is really a musician's soundman. He gets it. It would be nice to have a small mic that only costs $100.00 but I think the trade off has to do reducing size of the package and the amount of rejection that mic provides.
What I'm hoping to see one day is a small mic that will replace the pizeo completely. If he get's even close to that than it's wonderful. I'm savin my pennies.
That said, I've seen Drew Gress play with Fred Hersch twice and he uses a SM 58 mounted to the tailpiece running directly into his Walter Woods MI Series with the cabinet sitting on a chair and he sounds incredible!!!!

 

[larry]

Maybe the heavy pros forget that the rest of us are trying to make a living in places where live music was not the primary use of the room. When the acoustics suck, the bass is the first to suffer. With all kinds of weird resonances down low, all you can really do is roll it off. You also need the best rejection you can get. Enter the SM58 (or 57, or whatever).

When I play the Lincoln Center, I'll be a little more picky...

I'll mention again - a lot has to do with the instrument. I don't think I could have just used a mic a few years ago. Raising my string height, finding the loudest strings I can, removing pickups or anything that mutes the bass, went back to standing up so my knee was not in the back of the bass, working on getting a huge sound, etc. is what really makes the difference.

 

[flatback]

I'm really wating for the Stubby. I talked to Bob Heil and he is really a musician's soundman. He gets it. It would be nice to have a small mic that only costs $100.00 but I think the trade off has to do reducing size of the package and the amount of rejection that mic provides.
What I'm hoping to see one day is a small mic that will replace the pizeo completely. If he get's even close to that than it's wonderful. I'm savin my pennies.
That said, I've seen Drew Gress play with Fred Hersch twice and he uses a SM 58 mounted to the tailpiece running directly into his Walter Woods MI Series with the cabinet sitting on a chair and he sounds incredible!!!!

yea, well I dont think the PR 40 or any mic will entirely replace a pick up (unless you don't play with a drummer) but the PR40 Does do all these things that others dont: it has more rejection then I ever heard in a mic for live sound, it has a low end that is usable and rich and plush but that does not get out of hand and ....a bunch of other stuff already mentioned and the stubby is so small that it can get into the areas of the instrument that provide the best sound..
I've heard Drew play with that set up (in a small cafe, club) and I really didn't find it had enough to cut thru. It got lost in the ensemble stuff and was washy on the solos...Sure loved what I could hear though...
Yea about Bob...He IS a musicians friend and really believes in what he is bringing to the table, and he's excitable.

 

[Ric Vice]

yea, well I dont think the PR 40 or any mic will entirely replace a pick up

Well, I can dream about it

I've heard Drew play with that set up (in a small cafe, club) and I really didn't find it had enough to cut thru. It got lost in the ensemble stuff and was washy on the solos...Sure loved what I could hear though...

Well, The first time I saw him I was in the very fourth row of a very small club. It's entirely possible that could have been hearing more bass than amp, but I loved what I heard.


The Second time was in New Orleans at the IAJE, and I was pretty far back in a big house. I thought they just put a mic up to his speaker cabinet, but it's been a few years. He cut through nicely on that gig.
[/QUOTE]

Yea about Bob...He IS a musicians friend and really believes in what he is bringing to the table, and he's excitable.

[/QUOTE]

Bob used to have a shop in Marissia where I believe he still lives. I bought a Bag END 115 from that store. They only had very high end stuff. Alembics, Bag End ect.

Ric

 

[robgrow]

If you listen to any of the great live jazz recordings by Wally Heider, Rudy Van Gelder or any others of that era , almost invariably you are hearing relatively inexpensive dynamic mics (and there were a lot fewer choices back then). So when you hear a recording of PC live in club with Wynton Kelly, you're probably not hearing a vintage Neumann M49 condenser, but a modest dynamic mic such as an old Altec or EV 666. PC still sounds great.

 

[Ed Fuqua]

When I play the Lincoln Center, I'll be a little more picky...

During the Katrina fundraiser at the Jazz at Lincoln Center Rose Hall, Neal Miner was performing with Jon Hendricks (and large ensemble) using his mic of choice, a Shure SM 58....

 

[Ed Fuqua]

I bought a mic stand for $25 that is designed for bass drums and it works great.

You got a pitcher and/or model number?

 

[Ric Vice]

If you listen to any of the great live jazz recordings by Wally Heider, Rudy Van Gelder or any others of that era , almost invariably you are hearing relatively inexpensive dynamic mics (and there were a lot fewer choices back then). So when you hear a recording of PC live in club with Wynton Kelly, you're probably not hearing a vintage Neumann M49 condenser, but a modest dynamic mic such as an old Altec or EV 666. PC still sounds great.

Very Interesting Rob,
One of my favorite 'live" recordings is the Bill Evans Trio "Sunday at The Village Vanguard. They really captured Scott Lafaro's tone IMHO. I like it better than the studio recordings. I'm guessing that you are talking about Miles Davis "Live at the Blackhawk". Yes, PC plays an amazing bowed slow on one of those tracks.

Ric

 

[bolo]

Robert at Exporaudio has pretty much cut the best line between strength weight elegance and usefulness and although on some bases it may slip in certain positions, it would be really hard to design something that could work equally well on all instruments.

I wanted to add that in my case Robert's customer service has been absolutely top-notch all the way, just outstanding. He recently promised to send me some prototype spacer disks and different shaft combinations to try out, since I told him after I bought my clamp that the spacer disks were slipping slightly in one spot on my bass.

 

[larry]

Very Interesting Rob,
One of my favorite 'live" recordings is the Bill Evans Trio "Sunday at The Village Vanguard.

That's always been one of my favorites. I hear that as a two-mic recording - one on Scott, one on Bill, panned away from each other with Paul in the middle bleeding in to both mics. Probably some kind of omni condensers - but that's just my guess. I could be way off.

There is something about the Vanguard - I seem to dig the sound of every live recording there. As I type this I'm listening to Benny Green's "Testifyin'" recorded there.

 

[Marc Piane]

You got a pitcher and/or model number?

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[dennis duvall]

this may sound a little Neanderthal, but I have been using an all thread screw clamp, (like the luthiers use w/cork covered ends) to attach my little condenser mike. I have not noticed any dampening of sound from the bass, of course I attach it over the corner block,and after all I'm amplifing the bass. One can be bought from luthiers supply for about 15.00, or made for about 5.00 (1" dowel, 3/8 allthread, washer, 3/8 wingnut,cork) FWTW, Dennis

 

[Ed Fuqua]

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My mistake, I thought you were talking about a stand that would attach to the bass (H- clamp ish). I move around way too much for a stationary stand to put the mic where I want it....