Nonsense. I'm adapting one of the greatest pop song lyrics ever to the subject matter at hand. Big difference. Free verse is more Damon's domain.
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Double Bass Against my better judgment...
- Thread starter vanderbrook
- Start date
Nonsense. I'm adapting one of the greatest pop song lyrics ever to the subject matter at hand. Big difference. Free verse is more Damon's domain.
Sorry, Chris. None of what you wrote bears the slightest resemblance to "Louie Louie," or "Surfing Bird" either, for that matter.
Believe me, I get the impulse! We would all love for the SB88 is to the greatest, loudest bass out there! It would save a ton of money and headache. It really would. It is also great that you found a bass you love.
I have to file your experience with the "I have big hands and bass guitar technique works great for me!" as in, not plausible and only exist in internet comments!
Loving the bass, as you should, is fine. Deciding it is the right bass for you, is fine. Claiming that the lowest end bass Shen makes is louder and outperforms carved top basses is, as you say, unorthodox and would really require hard proof and not claims.
You declined to address whether the basses you were A/B-ing were set up the same and had the same strings. Did the other bass have a wing or bridge pick up on it you didn't take off? Did one bass have dead Heliocores and the other Spiros? There are a ton of mitigating factors that would validate your experience - none of them are the SB88 actually outperforming carved top basses.
Again, you think you are in an argument with me, but you are in disagreement with most of the greats - many of whom I've met, several of whom I have studied with.
But, again this isn't really a response to you, just making sure a future reader doesn't think the SB88 is a be all end all bass. It is, however, generally a rock solid bass to have.
The bass we are used to will nearly always work better for us than another bass, It is the exact reason I travel with a Shen hybrid that is not "as good" as some of the basses I'd be offered.
BTW: My basses were 4K for the Chadwick, under 3K (in the early '90s) for the old carved bass. The ply vs carved is no longer about saving money, Shen and others fixed that.
They like to get you in a compromising position
Well, they like to get you there and smile in your face
Yeah, they think they're so cute when they got you in that condition
But I think it's a total disgrace
And I say I fight authority, authority always wins
Well, I fight authority, authority always wins
Well, I've been doing it since I was a young kid
And I come out grinnin'
Well, I fight authority, authority always wins
(Oh yeah!) I call up my preacher I say, "Give me strength for round 5"
He said, "You don't need no strength, you need to grow up son"
I said, "Growin' up leads to growin' old and then to dyin'
Ooo, and dyin' to me don't sound like all that much fun"
And so I'll say I fight authority, authority always wins
Well, I fight authority, authority always wins
Well, I've been doing it since I was a young kid I come out grinnin'
Well, I fight authority, authority always wins...
Well, they like to get you there and smile in your face
Yeah, they think they're so cute when they got you in that condition
But I think it's a total disgrace
And I say I fight authority, authority always wins
Well, I fight authority, authority always wins
Well, I've been doing it since I was a young kid
And I come out grinnin'
Well, I fight authority, authority always wins
(Oh yeah!) I call up my preacher I say, "Give me strength for round 5"
He said, "You don't need no strength, you need to grow up son"
I said, "Growin' up leads to growin' old and then to dyin'
Ooo, and dyin' to me don't sound like all that much fun"
And so I'll say I fight authority, authority always wins
Well, I fight authority, authority always wins
Well, I've been doing it since I was a young kid I come out grinnin'
Well, I fight authority, authority always wins...
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Same strings: Spiro mittels. One or the other had a Full Circle on at any given point.
You want proof, not just claims? You have yet to provide me the research/study/paper I requested supporting your absolutist position.
Perhaps I've just run across outliers. This SB88 is, and my first bass, an Engelhardt, was louder than my carved German bass, louder than any hybrid I've played, and louder than my teacher's Hachez. But I'm not deaf, and I don't have an agenda. The 88 does not have as complex a tone as a bass with a carved top. I am simply reporting my experiences.
Greg Clinkingbeard
Commercial User
+1 to Greg Clinkenbeard`s post. Referencing Gage`s instrument guide; "For a jazz player, a plywood bass can be more effective than a carved bass, plywood basses tend to have a fat front end and they often record better." In the real gigging world where you`re probably amplified and trying to be heard in a band context, all the resonances and complexities of a carved bass can be more harmful than helpful. IMHO, standing 10 or 15 feet in front of two basses and determining which is louder will only tell you that; not which one you`ll hear better in a band situation.
This settles it. I am a plywood bass.
Since resuming an active presence here a few months back, I've noticed that @damonsmith is often in disagreement with other TBers, not just you...
The voice of authority. I guess quite a few of us here have strayed from The Path...
I see that there is no point to continuing my involvement in this thread, so I will unwatch now. Thanks again to all who made constructive comments.
Greg Clinkingbeard
Commercial User
True perhaps, but Damon is a trained, career professional bassist and as such must conform to a higher standard than most of the rest of us, who do not rely on bass to put food on our tables. Most of us are amateurs in the best sense of the word, but Damon's world is one where you either go Cadillac style or you go home.
The only opportunities I have had to perform any of the A/B comparisons batted about in this thread would have been at Brobst Violin Shop in Alexandria, VA or else Stillwell in Stanton, and since I had no intention of buying I refused to abuse the owners' time by trying. I am seventy-two years old and at my age have no business purchasing a $12,000 bass just to play roots-Americana.
Thanks for the nice-r words. Most of the information in threads like these comes from teaching for over 20 years now and seeing/hearing what holds people back. I've heard a lot of SB88s and a lot of Engels in that time and I have never heard any of them that were more than solid.
I also tend to prioritize how an instrument performs in the practice room over the stage, because in the big picture, the more you practice the better you will sound on stage.
Even if you are just play Low C & G in a roots band, the more you practice arco, the better and bigger those notes are going to be.
I also tend to prioritize how an instrument performs in the practice room over the stage, because in the big picture, the more you practice the better you will sound on stage.
Even if you are just play Low C & G in a roots band, the more you practice arco, the better and bigger those notes are going to be.
Greg Clinkingbeard
Commercial User
Damon is a wonderful player and I have enjoyed his YouTube clips immensely. His ability to get around on the instrument is very apparent and his abilities with the bow are much more advanced than mine. However, it is my opinion that he is more of a solo artist and is a bit on the ‘free’ or avant-garde scene than most of the players I know. I suspect that most of us are trying to play traditional solo or orchestra material, playing jazz standards gigs, backing singers, or playing bluegrass or traditional country. We do what we do and having the right bass for our situation is very important. On the jazz gigs I play, other musicians want to hear a solid quarter note and warm tone with some bottom. A bass that amplifies well is essential. In an orchestra it is important to blend with the section and have a nice, full tone and a louder and darker bass might be better.
Damon, thanks for this:
Damon, thanks for this:
Since the original poster has stopped following this thread, I am hoping we can stop now without me having to force it closed. This disagreement has played out in other discussions and I'm sure we'll all repeat ourselves again in future ones.
I think it would be best if we didn't continue to attempt in vein to convince each other of our deep-seated viewpoints here.
I think it would be best if we didn't continue to attempt in vein to convince each other of our deep-seated viewpoints here.
I also did a ton of quarter note walking with that guy in a band context! However, my set up is all about being an equal partner in every context i play in. I never recommend my set up to anyone - spiro solos and a fragile, old, punchy flatback!
That bass now has a new neck ( you can see the crack - bought it with a weak repair) and has been fully restored and has far more low end. It is still not a "dark" bass by any means.
i didnt find where you said what year YOUR sb88 is from. just that you picked it up in august. I have a 2018 sb88. when i purchased it, i was playing a 60's kay m1 and if it weren't for the little neck I would never have switched. i was horrified by how quiet my sb88 was in comparison, it was staggering. after 2 years and a lot of playing time, i am sure it is loud. i play with a guitar, washboard, two banjos, fiddle, and a clogger who plays spoons. good luck dude, and like someone here said already: You are in a great position to make a decision.
Dueling banjos? I love the instrument, and we had a great player (multiple state/regional championships) in my band, but I can't imagine two of 'em at once!
